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A historic guilty thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Orionaut, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. Orionaut


    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815


    For all you White folks, how would you feel if you found out today that your forbears traded and profited from "Black Ivory", and what would you do now as a consequence of learning this.?

    For all you Black folks, how would you feel if you discovered that your forbears were also involved with the trading of "Black Ivory" (Not an unrealistic scenario by any means in the UK and the US too). What would you do?

    I would kind of like to have put this in SC put I think putting it in GD is probably better, despite my wanting it to be a serious question.

    In the mean time. As far as I am aware. Despite having sea farers in my past. I do not think that "Black Ivory" was ever any part of it. For my part my sins of the past are all about Whales. And while I feel bad about this. no, I do not feel any need to rip my shirt off and beat my breast an reject my ancestors as a consequence!
  2. Dis86


    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 24,378

    Location: Northern England

    I'd do sweet F A except wonder where the money went.
  3. robfosters


    Joined: Dec 1, 2010

    Posts: 34,962

    Location: Welling, London

    Wouldn’t care a jot. It’s nothing to do with me is it.
  4. Ayahuasca


    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 20,913

    Location: County Durham

    I would have to check my privilege first and find out whether I'm allowed to comment on it.
  5. Orionaut


    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    Lols (Didn't want thread to be Lols really) but you are correct.

    Whalers made ********* of money! Why don't I have any of it?

  6. Rids


    Joined: Sep 30, 2008

    Posts: 6,295

    What my ancestors did or didn't do is of no concern to me. Doesn't matter to me if they were the worst slavers or the best humanatarians, that has no bearing on who I am and how I live my life.
  7. mmj_uk


    Joined: Dec 26, 2003

    Posts: 24,184

    The US DemocRat party was racist for hundreds of years but the majority of those trying to eradicate national culture/history will still vote for them, same goes in the UK they will vote for Jeremy Corbyn even though Communism has systematically slaughtered millions to bring about their lacklustre utopia's. So the people promoting it are either ignorant or hypocrites.

    People alive today are not responsible for things done by others in the past, this is the trouble when you treat people as racial (or other) groups instead of unique individuals.

    Like Martin Luther King said:
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  8. chroniclard


    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 15,939

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Donald Trump was a founding member of the KKK and he doesn't care, so neither do I.
  9. Hades


    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 24,406

    Location: Surrey

    It wouldn't bother me. It wasn't me or my immediate parents. I'm not responsible for it. I'm not accountable for it. I'm not doing it. I wouldn't feel any guilt.
  10. SixTwoSix


    Joined: Sep 14, 2007

    Posts: 11,033

    Location: Rugby

    Probably use the vast wealth to buy @mmj_uk a new keyboard without a broken capitalised R button. :D
  11. GravyMonster


    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 14,184

    Location: The land of milk & beans

    I am not my Grandparents. Any guilt for their actions is not mine to bear.
  12. Orionaut


    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    KKK was a collage frat from the 1830's as I recall. It only got nasty later.

    I want what he is on (And Melina too)

  13. Junglist


    Joined: Jun 11, 2015

    Posts: 5,591

    Location: Bristol

    Seeing as my family are from Jamaica I think it's very unlikely we'd have been slave traders but more than likely the traded goods. Actually, due to where my family in Jamaica are from there is actually a very high chance that my ancestors were with the Maroons But it's really hard to do a family tree as my uncle has been trying for years and records in Jamaica are iffy at best of times.

    Regarding the question what people did in the past has nothing to do with what we do today, for the most part. If someones family traded in slaves it doesn't mean that their living ancestor today would/does share the same view as them. I think it's really weird expecting a white person to apologise to me for something they haven't done to me when I, personally speaking - though it's likely at some point my family were, haven't been enslaved. Same as the whole white guilt thing. Why should there be white guilt if it wasn't something they've themselves done. I'd understand apologising the behalf of something your grandparents of parents done (more so in America) but beyond that point? meh.

    We can all look back at history and think "Well, that definitely wasn't right, how could they think it was" but it doesn't mean people today need to apologise for it. If anything I find the apology a bit offensive as how can you apologise sincerely for something you didn't do? Just insulting intelligence isn't it.

    I'd say most if not all people agree it was a horrible thing that shouldn't have happened - that's enough for me.
  14. ttaskmaster


    Joined: Sep 11, 2013

    Posts: 9,863

    Most of my ancestors were massive slavers and slave-traders.
    But because they were drunkards with big braided beards, awesome ships and fighting axes, their culture is widely celebrated, revered and even aspired to.

    Is Scandinavia expected to apologise for that? Is Italy expected to apologise for all the slaves used by the Roman Empire? Will we be tearing down the Pyramids in outrage, too?

    Most people in history have done bad things somewhere along the line.
    AFAIK, the whole slave thing in America actually started when black landowners enslaved other blacks. Until then it was all 'indentured servitude' and limited to a specified period of time, which covered people of all colours and was mainly how they paid off their passage to the colonies, in search of a better life than they were getting in Europe.
  15. chroniclard


    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 15,939

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Ah, was just following MMJ's garbage with more garbage.
  16. Derek W


    Joined: Oct 1, 2008

    Posts: 11,354

    Location: Glebe Park

  17. Edrof


    Joined: Nov 16, 2009

    Posts: 16,022

    Location: UK

    Any real student of history knows that our past is, for every nation, almost entirely filled with violence and injustice. I daresay that not a single penny was 'clean'. This should be remembered but not celebrated (for today's tax-dodging celebrities too, in my opinion). Sadly, the basic research that most people are willing to do comprises of Facebook and what some musician on Twitter says.

    It's a very complicated subject and there is no right answer, despite the people who shout loudly. As for slavery, tell many people that the 'evil' British Empire actually directly brought about the global abolition of slavery against the wishes of the main African slavers, who were actual black Africans, they would ignore you and prefer to retain their personal narrative of blame.
  18. Gray2233


    Joined: Oct 25, 2010

    Posts: 2,775

    How many black people had ancestors selling slaves out of Africa, are they guilty for the sins of their fathers?

    People alive today are not guilty for things that happened hundreds of years before they were born, in fact they're not guilty for things that they weren't involved in personally full stop.
  19. Diddums


    Joined: Oct 24, 2012

    Posts: 19,542

    Location: London

    You are aware that every single time you post something, nobody takes it seriously, right? Can you name a single occasion where you’ve posted your democrats rubbish and someone’s NOT dismissed it as drivel? Cos I certainly can’t :confused:
  20. wolfie138


    Joined: Jun 8, 2013

    Posts: 3,500

    my family fortune came from Nazi gold.