A little boundary advice please!

Dr House · 4 Dec 2011 at 10:12

Hi, I was hoping someone would give me a little advice. Here is a little background.

A developer bought a house on a large plot of land and knocked it down to build 2 houses.

I bought one house at auction, the developer had erected a fence between the 2 houses.
Around 6 weeks later the house next door was sold at auction.

We both knew the location of the fence before we bought the house. However the transfer plans where “wrong” and are not really indicative of what is on the ground or what the developer intended. I was not aware of this on completion but the guy next door was aware that the plans may not be correct.

The guy next door who is a nice guy wants the fence moved to give him more land which he may or may not be entitled to. I am willing to move the fence to help him out but I don’t want to move it so much that It makes my side access to my garden unusable.

I found this
Developer's plans form the basis of many conveyance plans and transfer plans dating from the mid-twentieth century onwards. Developer's plans tell you what the architect intended to be built and where - which could be significantly different from what was actually built and where it was built. In these cases it is important to recognise that it is the original fences erected by the developer or his contractors - and not the lines on the conveyance plan or transfer plan - that define your boundaries.
When the information contained in the deeds and the deed plans leaves the position of the boundary unclear, then it is worth considering the question: "What did the vendor intend by the deed that created the piece of land whose boundary is in question?"

www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/bdysummary.html

I want to avoid going to court over this, I feel he knew what he was buying when he bought it, its very hard to work out form the OS/Land registry plans where everything should be but I do also want to help him out I just don’t want to be shafted.

So, can anyone advice if the legal boundary would be defined as where the builder put the fence before selling both the properties or what may be shown on the land registry document.

King Damager · 4 Dec 2011 at 10:20

I imagine it would be based on what was shown on the land registry document unfortunately....

I actually have 0 knowledge what so ever of how it works. But I'd imagine that if the plans say that, then that's what it is...

kd

Dr House · 4 Dec 2011 at 10:35

King Damager said:
I imagine it would be based on what was shown on the land registry document unfortunately....

I actually have 0 knowledge what so ever of how it works. But I'd imagine that if the plans say that, then that's what it is...

kd

This is what I thought at first but after doing some reading it seems that the land registry and OS maps are not the legal boundary

http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/about-us/ordnance-survey#q2

I will get paid for legal advice on monday but if anyone knows about this stuff here it would be helpful

semi-pro waster · 4 Dec 2011 at 10:44

borich_planner works in town planning I believe so may have some insight if you get in contact with him.

It seems that you'll need to get in contact with the land registry based on the link though.

Derek W · 4 Dec 2011 at 10:48

Check your title deed and get your neighbour to do the same. If there is a difference between the two in relation to the boundary fence then it will tend to be deemed correct on the older of the two titles.

Dr House · 7 Dec 2011 at 11:32

Thanks for the info.

The developers plans got submitted to the land registry they are definitely different to where the developer has put the fence, the fence is where the developer intended to split the land and a mistake was made on the drawings.

Mr Jack · 7 Dec 2011 at 11:42

I'm pretty sure the actual position of the fence will define it in law if its ever challenged by anyone. Although, really it comes down to whether you care more about the land you'll lose or the hassle of conflict with your neighbour over this.

If you care about the land, seek proper legal advice.

If you want peace with your neighbour tell him you're okay with it, but he has to pay for all the fence alterations.

Dr House · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:01

we are happy to move the fence a little but the problem is that if we move it as much as he is asking it will block our side access and it will cut through the corner of our conservatory that is in the process of being built.

EDIT: just to be clear this is the house I bought at auction for my parents to live in so we will be living there long term.

Skidder · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:02

semi-pro waster said:
borich_planner works in town planning I believe so may have some insight if you get in contact with him.

He was very helpful indeed when I had a question for him, I'm sure he'd provide a useful view.

Skidder · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:03

Dr House said:
we are happy to move the fence a little but the problem is that if we move it as much as he is asking it will block our side access and it will cut through the corner of our conservatory that is in the process of being built

presumably showing any willingness to move it could be interpreted that you know it to be wrong

cjgardens · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:09

HOW LONG HAS THE FENCE BEEN THERE? IF ITS OVER 6 YEARS THEN THE LAND IS YOURS

bhavv · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:10

Thread is amusing for me, as I live on' the boundary' in an area called the wickets in a lovely posh named house next to a cricket pitch.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4639/dsc00189sg.jpg

Worst 'I live in a posh house that chavs keep trying to rob' post ever?

......

Please dont try and rob me now :mad:

arknor · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:14

ask exactly how far he would like the fence moved bearing in mind it needs to be reasonable for both parties and see what he says? if hes beeing an arse tell him you will buy some very nasty and noisy dogs and make his life a misery

Nitefly · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:18

Dr House said:
This is what I thought at first but after doing some reading it seems that the land registry and OS maps are not the legal boundary

http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/about-us/ordnance-survey#q2

I will get paid for legal advice on monday but if anyone knows about this stuff here it would be helpful

You are misreading the link. It is just stating that you couldn't just drop a scaled up version of the land registry documents to find 'your land' - it's impossible for it to include every tree root, bush and tree that might affect what people have access to. For example, does the land to the right of a boundary include the land which houses the fence the separates the land, or does it only include the land to the right of the fence?

By and large and for pretty much all practical purposes, what's on the land registry documents is conclusive of the land you own.

Buyer 2 has a claim against his solicitor if this wasn't brought to his attention.

.... he did have a solicitor when buying the house... right? :eek:

Mr Jack · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:21

Dr House said:
we are happy to move the fence a little but the problem is that if we move it as much as he is asking it will block our side access and it will cut through the corner of our conservatory that is in the process of being built.

He almost certainly cannot move a fence so that it blocks an access. Unless your solicitor was incompetent they should have made sure there was legal right of access along every access way to your land - that means that even if he owns the land he cannot put a fence there since it would stop you accessing your land.

Could you MSPaint up a map, it might help us understand?

Firestar_3x · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:25

bhavv said:
Thread is amusing for me, as I live on' the boundary' in an area called the wickets in a lovely posh named house next to a cricket pitch.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4639/dsc00189sg.jpg

Worst 'I live in a posh house that chavs keep trying to rob' post ever?

......

Please dont try and rob me now

Just had a look for the lolz.

The houses aren't even worth that much looking at the sold prices and it isn't even a private road, showoff fail.

RopAyy · 7 Dec 2011 at 12:34

Firestar_3x said:
Just had a look for the lolz, ******?

The houses aren't even worth that much looking at the sold prices and it isn't even a private road, showoff fail.

I think he was been more than sarcastic.
BD8, oh the joys, BD7 is no better although i dont get a posh name for my place!

bhavv · 7 Dec 2011 at 13:17

Firestar_3x said:
Just had a look for the lolz

The houses aren't even worth that much looking at the sold prices and it isn't even a private road, showoff fail.

But but but ... it was bought at 160k, and currently worth a bit under 400k or something silly that no one with a brain would pay to live there.

Yes the surrounding area is crap.

PS, please do remove the postcode!

Windle · 7 Dec 2011 at 13:37

bhavv said:
But but but ... it was bought at 160k, and currently worth a bit under 400k or something silly that no one with a brain would pay to live there.

Yes the surrounding area is crap.

PS, please do remove the postcode!

Worth a bit under 400k? The most recent sale of that house type was in 2009 @ 270k and house prices in that area have dropped nearly 6% in the last 2 years so your looking at 250k or less bearing in mind it's not a sellers market atm.

Estate agent valuations are nonsense in most cases, they'll tell you what you want to hear to tempt you to sign with them.

Firestar_3x · 7 Dec 2011 at 13:43

bhavv said:
But but but ... it was bought at 160k, and currently worth a bit under 400k or something silly that no one with a brain would pay to live there.

Yes the surrounding area is crap.

PS, please do remove the postcode!

Done good sir, Houses seem quite cheap in Bradford you can get a lot of bricks for your money.