How much are you looking at spending and what is the pc going to be used for?
Do you require everything or just the tower?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-270-OK
i just ordered one today, just added a bigger drive and sdd plus 8gb ram and a vga card, just under £400, no o/s keyboard or mouse or monitor etc
great spec above go for either of them, onboard wouldn't cut the mustard with total war either, unless on low settings and small battles might be ok with medieval total and rome etc, but would struggle with the later ones
its almost all i play tbh