Poll: Abortion, Roe v. Wade

[Resident]

I sit on a fence with it tbh.

I'm OK with aborting a pregnancy there are medical reasons why or the conception was through forceful act (basically rape).

Where I have the problem is people conceiving and deciding they just don't want the child because it would be inconvienent. You had sex, what were you expecting, a toaster? The idea that a termination can be used as a form of post-conception contraceptive is utterly wrong.

 

[cheesyboy]

The idea that a termination can be used as a form of post-conception contraceptive is utterly wrong

Why?

 

[Haggisman]

I sit on a fence with it tbh.

I'm OK with aborting a pregnancy there are medical reasons why or the conception was through forceful act (basically rape).

Where I have the problem is people conceiving and deciding they just don't want the child because it would be inconvienent. You had sex, what were you expecting, a toaster? The idea that a termination can be used as a form of post-conception contraceptive is utterly wrong.

What if they were using contraception which failed?

 

[throwaway4372]

The financial argument is a terrible one. A termination is orders of magnitude cheaper than paying for:

- The birth of a child

AND
(
- Benefits for a single mother who can no longer work OR free childcare
OR
- The cost of putting an unwanted child through the care system
AND
- The potential cost of dealing with the fallout of the above if it all goes wrong (e.g. a child with a **** upbringing turning to crime and all the associated policing costs, or paying benefits for the rest of their life)
)

Nah I'm not saying force them to have the kid because I don't want to pay for the abortion, for all the reasons you listed. I am saying send them the bill, as they are responsible for their actions, not me. I accept it has to be covered if they can't afford it. I do believe the same thing for smokers, drinkers, obese, etc. It's about being responsible for your actions, rather than everyone else being responsible for your actions.

 

[Resident]

Why?

Because it's ending a life because of someone's irresponsibility.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Every Sperm is Sacred - Monty Python's The Meaning of Life

Subscribe to the Official Monty Python Channel here - http://smarturl.it/SubscribeToPythonEvery Sperm is Sacred scene, taken from Monty Python's The Meaning ...

www.youtube.com

yes it is a serious problem but i see no harm in keeping it friendly (and I cant be the only one who thought of this song in this thread )

 

[Haggisman]

Nah I'm not saying force them to have the kid because I don't want to pay for the abortion, for all the reasons you listed. I am saying send them the bill, as they are responsible for their actions, not me. I accept it has to be covered if they can't afford it. I do believe the same thing for smokers, drinkers, obese, etc. It's about being responsible for your actions, rather than everyone else being responsible for your actions.

Do you apply the same logic to people who require medical care for sporting injuries, due to car crashes, from falling down the stairs, not looking properly when they cross the road etc.?

Because it's ending a life because of someone's irresponsibility.

Ending a life? Or preventing it from ever occurring? That comes down to the argument of "when does it become a baby"? You're against the morning-after-pill as well then?

 

[M1k3H]

Nah I'm not saying force them to have the kid because I don't want to pay for the abortion, for all the reasons you listed. I am saying send them the bill, as they are responsible for their actions, not me. I accept it has to be covered if they can't afford it. I do believe the same thing for smokers, drinkers, obese, etc. It's about being responsible for your actions, rather than everyone else being responsible for your actions.

Should we start charging for their actions prior to accessing the NHS? How about a smoker with cancer? Or a cyclist with knackered knee? Or a jogger with a broken ankle? Or an obese person with heart problems? List goes on... What about them accepting responsibility?

Unless you do the above at the same time, this is a discriminating policy.

 

[throwaway4372]

Do you apply the same logic to people who require medical care for sporting injuries, due to car crashes, from falling down the stairs, not looking properly when they cross the road etc.?

Those are accidents. Sex isn't an accident lol. "woops I tripped and my weener fell in, and out, for a bit, then oops!"

 

[cheesyboy]

Because it's ending a life because of someone's irresponsibility.

But it's ok to end it because of misfortune or violence?

 

[Werewolf]

Abortion isn't a form of contraception, which is what a large % of terminations are used as. Maybe people should start taking some responsibility for their actions

There has never AFAIK been a reputable study that supports that nonsense*. The likes of the "pro life" lobby in the US push that a lot based on what are usually apocryphal stories or extreme outliers

Most abortions are either because of failed contraception, or medical necessity.


*At least where contraception is readily available, and people are taught sex education in any form of effective manner, oddly enough many of the "pro life" people in the US are very against both of the things that are most likely to prevent the need for a termination where it isn't a strict medical necessity.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Hopefully these draconian laws in red states will be challenged soon by Jewish or Muslim women on religious freedom grounds, something the SC has been very much behind recently as the majority of cases regard Christians. In Judaism there are lots of Rabbis that say a women has a right to an abortion and a foetus is certainly not considered a human life until birth. Islam doesn't consider a foetus a human life until the quickening around 16 weeks and there is no clear prohibition of abortion in Islam. I'm sure they will avoid hearing these cases until the Circuit Court forces their hands.

 

[throwaway4372]

Should we start charging for their actions prior to accessing the NHS? How about a smoker with cancer? Or a cyclist with knackered knee? Or a jogger with a broken ankle? Or an obese person with heart problems? List goes on... What about them accepting responsibility?

Unless you do the above at the same time, this is a discriminating policy.

Broadly, yes.
Smokers is a great example because there already is a big tax on cigs.
Defo should be a similar tax on junk food.
I do agree about the cyclist and jogger but I don't know how you'd prove/tax that.

 

[Haggisman]

Those are accidents. Sex isn't an accident lol. "woops I tripped and my weener fell in, and out, for a bit, then oops!"

Getting pregnant due to failed contraception is just as much an accident as breaking your leg while playing football

 

[M1k3H]

Broadly, yes.
Smokers is a great example because there already is a big tax on cigs.
Defo should be a similar tax on junk food.
I do agree about the cyclist and jogger but I don't know how you'd prove/tax that.

We might as well scrap the NHS then cause most people would have been able to do something differently/taken (more) precautions prior to them developing a disease/having an accident, so no one will qualify for free treatment.

 

[throwaway4372]

There has never AFAIK been a reputable study that supports that nonsense. The likes of the "pro life" lobby in the US push that a lot based on what are usually apocryphal stories or extreme outliers

Most abortions are either because of failed contraception, or medical necessity.

You've got a contradiction there IMO. An abortion because of failed contraception is using the abortion as contraception. This is because not having sex is 100% effective, but common contraception is less effective than that. If you have sex with contraception you're knowingly entering into a small chance of relying on an abortion.

 

[bigmike20vt]

You've got a contradiction there IMO. An abortion because of failed contraception is using the abortion as contraception. This is because not having sex is 100% effective, but common contraception is less effective than that. If you have sex with contraception you're knowingly entering into a small chance of relying on an abortion.

I think the difference of opinion (and i could be wrong) comes down to what you consider life, vs the potential for life.

you it would seem consider it to be the moment of fertilization? others consider it the moment of birth.

I think the point of viability outside of the womb is the sensible compromise............ otherwise if it is potential of life then like the monty python song then every sperm and every egg possesses the potential for life.

This does not mean if i was in the position to choose to have an abortion it would be easy or without any regret or feelings of guilt.......

there are people use use abortions as general contraception (i knew of one girl, my exes housemate who at 19 had had 2 abortions and was looking to get her third (hand on heart truth) and i wont lie i think her attitude was vile......but these are surely in the vast minority......... but equally I dont think a contraceptive failure leading to a very difficult decision, or knowing a fetus is going to have serious medical issues and deciding you are not prepared to have it is the same thing.

but this is one of those things like politics....... it is true we may be swayed to move our views a little bit, i think it is almost impossible that anyone will radically change their views - until perhaps they are in the position, then they may.

 

[Haggisman]

You've got a contradiction there IMO. An abortion because of failed contraception is using the abortion as contraception. This is because not having sex is 100% effective, but common contraception is less effective than that. If you have sex with contraception you're knowingly entering into a small chance of relying on an abortion.

And finally, there we have it; people should never have sex unless they want a baby....

Stop living in sin, repent, brimstone and hellfire. Etc

 

[throwaway4372]

I think the difference of opinion (and i could be wrong) comes down to what you consider life, vs the potential for life.
you it would seem consider it to be the moment of fertilization? others consider it the moment of birth.
I think the point of viability outside of the womb is the sensible compromise.
[...]

I defined it in an earlier post, don't blame you for missing it though:
"When parents become aware of the pregnancy and choose not to terminate then I believe the right to life is implied. I believe this should be defined in law."

 

[throwaway4372]

And finally, there we have it; people should never have sex unless they want a baby....

Stop living in sin, repent, brimstone and hellfire. Etc

Nah - you've put me in a box with the pro-lifers, which I'm just not in.

Seeing as it's going downhill in terms of quality I'm going to stop the back-and-forth now. I think we've contributed some useful things that give people something to think about, but there's a point where it'll just annoy everyone else. <3