Adding a Mesh network to a Sky Q Router? Can someone help me?

[NeilF]

So I'm planning on adding a Mesh network to my Sky Q router.

From my understanding the simplest way to do this would be to put the new Mesh nework (eg: Orbi or Velop) into bridge mode, so the Sky Q router is still the "boss"?

BUT, in doing this you typically then lose loads of the features of the Mesh network such as device monitoring and the like.

So, to get over this, I'm trying to understand the hurdles of setting it up so the Mesh isn't compromised by having to run in bridge mode? It seems to involve?:-
1) Set the Mesh hard to a dedicated/fixed IP.
2) Set up a DMZ (what ever that is) on the Sqy Q rotuer to that IP. I assume that tells it to pass control over to the Mesh hardware?
3) From then on all port forwarding and the like (I do for game servers etc) would have to be defined on the Mesh hardware, not the SQy Q router as now?
4) All devices (ethernet cables) would be plugged into my Mesh hardware, and none into my Router (except the single lead from the router to the Mesh)?

With the above could I retain the Sky Wifi albeit even on a different name? Because I believe it's very fussy about using its own network if you use any of the remote sky Hubs for TV viewing?

Is anyone able to help explain if there's a better option? Or if the above is the best way, and will indeed work?

 

[bremen1874]

What you've written sounds about right.

The main problem you end up with is double NAT. For some people this a problem, for others not so much. It depends on what you're using the network for. Google 'double NAT' for details of what it is and why you'd usually want to avoid it.

Doesn't the Sky-Q offer mesh capabilities of its own?

Do any of the systems you're looking at support MER? If they do you could replace Sky's router with a VDSL modem and connect that to the mesh system

You could always change your ISP to one that uses standard PPPoE connections and avoid all of these problems.

 

[nick]

I had this same problem. My main issue was the Sky Q Router being unreliable - it would often stop giving you an IP address and require toggling wifi on/off to get an IP address. Also found the Mini boxes acting as wifi extenders never worked that well (at least in our house).

I ended up getting a Netgear D7000, using that as the router/modem (it supports MER), and connecting that to an Orbi 3-point mesh, which you then set up in AP mode. So in your setup you could use a D7000 as your modem (or anything else that supports MER).

Conveniently the Orbis were located pretty much next to where my Sky Q Mini boxes were, so I turned off the wifi on all the Mini boxes (via hidden settings menu) and connected them to the ethernet backhaul on the Orbi, which proved a bit more reliable then their own mesh system, although we do still get breakups sometimes.

In the end I'm switching ISP anyway, as I need a static IP for work, so I'm going to Plusnet which is a normal PPPoE connection. Decided to go all-in with a new Ubiquiti system instead. Still keeping Sky for TV but will run it on its own built-in mesh, with everything else on the Ubiquiti network.

 

[NeilF]

I had this same problem. My main issue was the Sky Q Router being unreliable - it would often stop giving you an IP address and require toggling wifi on/off to get an IP address. Also found the Mini boxes acting as wifi extenders never worked that well (at least in our house).

I ended up getting a Netgear D7000, using that as the router/modem (it supports MER), and connecting that to an Orbi 3-point mesh, which you then set up in AP mode. So in your setup you could use a D7000 as your modem (or anything else that supports MER).

Conveniently the Orbis were located pretty much next to where my Sky Q Mini boxes were, so I turned off the wifi on all the Mini boxes (via hidden settings menu) and connected them to the ethernet backhaul on the Orbi, which proved a bit more reliable then their own mesh system, although we do still get breakups sometimes.

In the end I'm switching ISP anyway, as I need a static IP for work, so I'm going to Plusnet which is a normal PPPoE connection. Decided to go all-in with a new Ubiquiti system instead. Still keeping Sky for TV but will run it on its own built-in mesh, with everything else on the Ubiquiti network.

But, doesn't replacing your SKy Q router mean the Sky Q hubs (remote TV) won't work as they need the Sky Q box?

And then if you set up the Orbi in AP mode you lose half the functionality of it?

 

[bremen1874]

Can you be a Sky Q customer and not have Sky broadband?

I thought you could. If you can it should be possible to replace the router without breaking the TV.

Do the remote boxes not communicate directly with the Sky Q box rather than the Sky Q router?

 

[nick]

But, doesn't replacing your SKy Q router mean the Sky Q hubs (remote TV) won't work as they need the Sky Q box?

And then if you set up the Orbi in AP mode you lose half the functionality of it?

The mini boxes (remote TV) communicate directly with the main Q box, rather than over your normal wifi connection, so they still work fine. This link https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs...404726/how-to-fix-sky-q-connectivity-problems (all pages) has a lot of info about how the connections work that I found useful at the time.

And yes, the Orbi isn't really being used to its full potential as just an AP.

 

[NeilF]

The mini boxes (remote TV) communicate directly with the main Q box, rather than over your normal wifi connection, so they still work fine. This link https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs...404726/how-to-fix-sky-q-connectivity-problems (all pages) has a lot of info about how the connections work that I found useful at the time.

And yes, the Orbi isn't really being used to its full potential as just an AP.

OK... Simply plugging the Orbi in as AP is obviously (on top of the Sky Q router) the simplest installation at least...

 

[Avalon]

Can you be a Sky Q customer and not have Sky broadband?
I thought you could. If you can it should be possible to replace the router without breaking the TV.
Do the remote boxes not communicate directly with the Sky Q box rather than the Sky Q router?

Yes, you can have Q and not have Sky broadband. The wifi mesh set-up on the mini's however requires a Sky broadband connection/router afaik (it was that way at launch), it could have changed though. @MissChief can likely confirm one way or another.

I ended up getting a Netgear D7000, using that as the router/modem (it supports MER), and connecting that to an Orbi 3-point mesh, which you then set up in AP mode. So in your setup you could use a D7000 as your modem (or anything else that supports MER).

It's not MER on FTTC, it's DHCP option 61 and my understanding is Sky recently (and quietly) removed the requirement to only use Sky supplied equipment to connect to the 'Sky network'... or someone accidentally deleted several sections in the middle of the T&C's, i'd believe either

 

[MissChief]

Yes, you can have Q and not have Sky broadband. The wifi mesh set-up on the mini's however requires a Sky broadband connection/router afaik (it was that way at launch), it could have changed though. @MissChief can likely confirm one way or another.
It's not MER on FTTC, it's DHCP option 61 and my understanding is Sky recently (and quietly) removed the requirement to only use Sky supplied equipment to connect to the 'Sky network'... or someone accidentally deleted several sections in the middle of the T&C's, i'd believe either

Wi-Fi mesh in terms of hotspots only works with Sky Broadband but you can use any broadband (Business, Mobile and Satellite aren't officially supported) with Sky Q. it's even been updated that any piece of Sky Q equipment can be the one that is connected to the third party broadband, not just the main box.

 

[NeilF]

Interesting, the Google Wifi Mesh system is designed just to plug onto an existing network as easily as possible with no compromise due to having to set it to access point mode... Just plug it in, and go, and you still have guest networks and all facilities available as standard.

Seems the unit also seems very reliable.

 

[NeilF]

The question is if I do this:-

Sky Router --ethernet--> Google Wifi --ethernet--> Switch and all the rest of my wired network... (including other switches an homeplugs)

Then will the sky router continue to work the same as regards port forwarding? Will PCs and devices with fixed IP addresses continue to work with those same IP addresses?

 

[bremen1874]

If you use Google Wifi with the existing router you've got double NAT (i.e. two local networks one behind the other). The Google Wifi will become your router and you'll have to deal with the double NAT issues. Your devices won't be able to see the Sky router anymore and you should assume that they'll all need to be reconfigured.

 

[NeilF]

If you use Google Wifi with the existing router you've got double NAT (i.e. two local networks one behind the other). The Google Wifi will become your router and you'll have to deal with the double NAT issues. Your devices won't be able to see the Sky router anymore and you should assume that they'll all need to be reconfigured.

Huh! But that's implying it can't even do the job it's designed to do if there's fundamental issues like that?

This google page suggests all you do is ensure your google wifi has it's own unique wireless network name, which in my case I was intending to be the case - https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/6277579?hl=en-GB

Meanwhile this post about people having problems with a Plex server when using Google Wifi is EXACTLY what I DO NOT want to encounter - https://forums.plex.tv/t/using-plex-server-with-google-wifi-double-nat/176741/12

 

[bremen1874]

Huh! But that's implying it can't even do the job it's designed to do if there's fundamental issues like that?

Not at all.

If you had an ISP that supplied a bridgeable router you'd be fine.

If you had an ISP that used a standard PPPoE connection you'd also be fine (with the purchase of a cheap VDSL modem).

You're with Sky and they don't offer either option.

 

[NeilF]

Just thought I'd phone Apple and their take on it was it wouldn't be an issue.

So wiring would be:-
Sky Q Router --ethernet--> Google Wifi --ethernet--> Switch to all of the rest of my wired devices (PCs, homeplugs and even other switches)

Any port forwarding firewall rules would then have to be removed/disabled on the Sky Q Router, and in effect re-created on the Google Wifi. So all my portforwardings to my 192.168.0.99 game server machine would have to be moved to google wifi. And there's chance that IP address wouldn't even need to be changed as they said the last two digits of the IP address can be amended so implied 192.168.0.99 could even be retained for the PC in question.

So am I missing an issue here?

 

[bremen1874]

The Sky router and the Google router need to be on different subnets.

If the Sky router is currently using 192.168.0.n and you want the Google router to use it instead you'll need to reconfigure the Sky router to use something different (e.g 192.168.1.n).

Depending on how you do things you'll probably need to configure your port forwarding on both routers.

If the Sky router has DMZ functionality you may be able to use that to make life easier.

Whatever you do you'll have double NAT which is a bit **** and shouldn't be necessary.

 

[NeilF]

The Sky router and the Google router need to be on different subnets.

If the Sky router is currently using 192.168.0.n and you want the Google router to use it instead you'll need to reconfigure the Sky router to use something different (e.g 192.168.1.n).

Depending on how you do things you'll probably need to configure your port forwarding on both routers.

If the Sky router has DMZ functionality you may be able to use that to make life easier.

Whatever you do you'll have double NAT which is a bit **** and shouldn't be necessary.

Ah ah ah!

Now, I was discussing something elsewhere regarding mesh systems, and someone mentioned about setting up a DMZ on the Sky Q Router to the IP of the mesh system (eg: Google Wifi)...

So yes, the Sky Q Router can have a DMZ, although I've seen people talking about it being a security issue? But I guess all you're doing is passing all control/protection over go the next device down the line from the Sky Q router which is the Google Wifi?


But let's assume Google Wifi starts using 192.168.1.n for everything then, so all my existing port forward rules to my game server (192.168.0.99) will simply have to change for example to 192.168.1.99 once I've told Google Wifi to fix its IP address to that.


ps: It's interest this guy who uses Google Wifi instead of Sky Q's wifi for his Sky Hubs - https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Sky-Q/...-Vastly-Improved-My-Q-Experience/td-p/2902109