Adoption, would you, having read this?

[Orionaut]

I'd argue as well that many behavioral traits are possibly genetic and no amount of nurturing will fix it. I wonder how many studies have been done around this as I'd like to see if anecdotal evidence tallies up..

Probably relatively few

The mere suggestion that Human temperament and behavior might have an inheritable component would get most researchers hounded out of their research posts....

On another note,

Research has been carried out on animals with very interesting results...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_red_fox

 

[cheesyboy]

I'd argue as well that many behavioural traits are possibly genetic and no amount of nurturing will fix it. I wonder how many studies have been done around this as I'd like to see if anecdotal evidence tallies up.

The mere suggestion that Human temperament and behavior might have an inheritable component would get most researchers hounded out of their research posts....

Well, autism is quite strongly hereditary - that's not a controversial point. With the elder sister in this story having moderate to severe autism, it's not unlikely that the younger, more troublesome, sister did too. But the parents probably didn't notice that either.....

 

[jonessa]

A mate of mine has recently adopted a lad who was abused - no issues so far, but he's accepted the fact that there may be problems later on.

It's so sad that so many kids are "broken" by their surroundings and upbringing

 

[ttaskmaster]

I guess hindsight helps a lot but jesus christ how did it take them so long to realise that something was seriously wrong with her.

More like how long did it take loving parents to admit that something was wrong and it wasn't just her personality.

they really should've had her in specialist therapy as soon as they realised she was a little different.

There's "a little different" and then there's "broken". If we did that to every child that was a little different, most of us would live out the rest of our lives in specialist therapy.

Certainly creepy but at the same time the girls were 1 1/2 and 2 1/2, how much can you actually say about their mental state when they are literally toddlers.

Doesn't matter - If they have a history, it should be disclosed.
There may be no telling what their mental state is, but knowing whatever history there is will still prepare the adoptive parents.

There is no conflict of interest as long as you consider the priority to be to put children with a good family.

But the family may not be any good if they're not made aware of the child's history.

This isn't quite the same thing, but all three of our dogs are adopted recues.
We have partial history on two of them, one of which was obviously the previous owner lying about their reasons for giving the dog up, while the third is merely estimated based on his behaviours.
But all three still come with a history, which affected them and their characters considerably.

 

[new boy]

It doesn't sound right to withhold information about facts surrounding the children that could cause mental issues in later life, as that's potentially preventing the children from receiving help they need.

 

[Orionaut]

Well, autism is quite strongly hereditary - that's not a controversial point. With the elder sister in this story having moderate to severe autism, it's not unlikely that the younger, more troublesome, sister did too. But the parents probably didn't notice that either.....

Well, there are many medical conditions that are hereditary. But I am thinking of rather more subtle aspects of behavior and temperament.

(EG say the size of ones "Personal Space". I theorise that not only is this an heritable characteristic, but also that people whose genetic and cultural heritage has a long tradition of living in large densely populated cities will tend to have a smaller sense of personal space than those who do not...Of course, no researcher would want to take the risk of testing that hypothesis for fear of finding it confirmed ! )

A mate of mine has recently adopted a lad who was abused - no issues so far, but he's accepted the fact that there may be problems later on.

It's so sad that so many kids are "broken" by their surroundings and upbringing

As was alluded to in the article, the big problem for adoptive parents today is the massive way the "Market" has changed over the last 50 yeras or so.

Even after the legalisation of abortion in 1967 it was still considered socially unacceptable so there was still a steady supply of healthy normal newborns available for adoption.

Nowadays this supply has mostly dried up, in the main the only children available for adoption are older (Sometimes much older) children and who are almost inevitably also broken to a greater or lesser degree..(There are some newborn adoptions, but it is far rarer than it used to be and even they will frequently be damaged goods too rather than just unwanted (Druggie/Alcoholic Mothers etc))

 

[BigDannyO]

I've adopted twice through two different agencies (council), and in both circumstances we were given as much information as was available.

To be honest, I don't see how the agencies can withhold vital information as she claims. We were privvy to background information for both of our kids and their birth parents. There's no way there could be anything redacted or hidden, it's all there in black and white in many documents from various sources, and it would take some serious collusion from multiple agencies for it to be the case.

Adoption now is a very different prospect to how it was done in the old days.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Probably relatively few

The mere suggestion that Human temperament and behavior might have an inheritable component would get most researchers hounded out of their research posts....

On another note,

Research has been carried out on animals with very interesting results...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_red_fox

There has been research on it, mainly through twin studies. How much of this has gone on more recently, I don’t know.

 

[terley]

Diagnosing children with psychopathy is alnost impossible, autism not so much.

 

[Orionaut]

There has been research on it, mainly through twin studies. How much of this has gone on more recently, I don’t know.

Funny you should mention that.

In this mornings Wail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...parated-birth-sinister-social-experiment.html

Seems to me that Behavior and temperament are highly inheritable.

However, life experiences can also have a strong effect too. Not just because the brain is malleable and will develop different pathways through life as a result of different experiences, but also because ones active genetic make up is malleable too.

A pair of identical twins might well have identical genetic make up at conception, but that does not mean that they do so 20-30 years later since we all carry genes that can be switched on or off as a result of external experiences (Sometimes these changes can actually be passed on to children. EG I remember reading that Children born to people who have experienced severe malnutrition are born with normally inactive genes switched on that can help people survive this. However there are downsides which are disadvantageous if food is abundant, which is why those genes are not switched on all the time)

Diagnosing children with psychopathy is alnost impossible, autism not so much.

Unlike Autisim, which I would not expect to confer many survival benefits. Psychopathy actually confers many survival/reproductive benefits.

Even in heavily regulated and collectivized modern societies, Psychopaths who manage to keep on the right side of the Law often do really rather well.

In earlier less regulated and more individualistic societies I would have thought that many aspects of Psychopathy would be a big survival/reproductive advantage.

Autistics would likely find it hard to survive in any form of society. Psychopaths are only really considered to be suffering from a medical condition if their temperament compromises their ability to function successfully within society so its status as a medical condition is far more grey area.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Unlike Autisim, which I would not expect to confer many survival benefits.

Depends on the society.
These days we can just claim benefits to survive!!

Psychopaths are only really considered to be suffering from a medical condition if their temperament compromises their ability to function successfully within society so its status as a medical condition is far more grey area.

Same with autism, really - It depends on the severity.
Until quite recently, anyone considered higher functioning autistic just grew up being regarded as "weird" and many learn enough coping mechanisms that they can function well enough... some even have long and successful careers as musicians and the like.

But society and technology matters, too. In the last few years, people like Carly Fleishmann have helped to greatly advance understanding of autism and shown how other autistics might function a whole lot better - Would you have believed a severely non-verbal autistic person could host a talk show and interview reasonably well-known celebs like Channing Tatum, for example?

 

[Hotwired]

Would you have believed a severely non-verbal autistic person could host a talk show and interview reasonably well-known celebs like Channing Tatum, for example?

I read that, had a quick search for Channing Tatum interviews and thought he was doing pretty good for an autist.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I read that, had a quick search for Channing Tatum interviews and thought he was doing pretty good for an autist.

Heh heh!
Saying that, though, a fair few celebs are. Dan Ackroyd is pretty autistic and has still done alright for himself.

 

[Scort]

I guess hindsight helps a lot but jesus christ how did it take them so long to realise that something was seriously wrong with her. She sounds like a little girl straight out of a horror movie, they really should've had her in specialist therapy as soon as they realised she was a little different.

It wouldn't stop me adopting in the future but it's a shame how these young people are being failed by the state. Services like social services should be prioritised a lot higher than they seem to be by governments.

I thought exactly the same - but I guess that mental illness, wasn't so easy to spot back then - by layman? Heck, even these days, can any of us really know what to look for; could we really say for certain that someone has mental illness.

 

[terley]

Funny you should mention that.

In this mornings Wail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...parated-birth-sinister-social-experiment.html

Seems to me that Behavior and temperament are highly inheritable.

However, life experiences can also have a strong effect too. Not just because the brain is malleable and will develop different pathways through life as a result of different experiences, but also because ones active genetic make up is malleable too.

A pair of identical twins might well have identical genetic make up at conception, but that does not mean that they do so 20-30 years later since we all carry genes that can be switched on or off as a result of external experiences (Sometimes these changes can actually be passed on to children. EG I remember reading that Children born to people who have experienced severe malnutrition are born with normally inactive genes switched on that can help people survive this. However there are downsides which are disadvantageous if food is abundant, which is why those genes are not switched on all the time)




Unlike Autisim, which I would not expect to confer many survival benefits. Psychopathy actually confers many survival/reproductive benefits.

Even in heavily regulated and collectivized modern societies, Psychopaths who manage to keep on the right side of the Law often do really rather well.

In earlier less regulated and more individualistic societies I would have thought that many aspects of Psychopathy would be a big survival/reproductive advantage.

Autistics would likely find it hard to survive in any form of society. Psychopaths are only really considered to be suffering from a medical condition if their temperament compromises their ability to function successfully within society so its status as a medical condition is far more grey area.

Exactly psychopathy or high functioning psychopathy can be a very beneficial characteristic to have.. They think the majority of industry leaders may in fact be psychopathic, also Psychopathy =/= violence

 

[Narj]

Exactly psychopathy or high functioning psychopathy can be a very beneficial characteristic to have.. They think the majority of industry leaders may in fact be psychopathic, also Psychopathy =/= violence

Yeah, just look at Roger Ver. Definite psychopath.

 

[Django x2]

Interesting that the adoption process is all about the suitability of the adoptive parents to the child rather than the child to the adoptive parents. There needs to be a balance, although I completely understand that a child, born out of incest and beaten with a hammer, could hold less appeal to Mr & Mrs Smith than the child whose parents died in a car crash, but as much information needs to be provided for the safety, well being, and mental state of both parties