adsl and 4G bonding

rangor gubbins · 24 Aug 2017 at 13:56

I'm trying to figure out best (speed and cost) option for improving our internet connection at home. We're on the outskirts of a little village. Current internet provider is Plusnet. We get 6 mbps download and about 0.5 upload via the adsl connection, which is pretty pants but is cheap at about £9.99 per month.
We do have pretty good 4G connection though and I can get +20 mpbs on my mobile via 4G from Vodafone.
I've been reading about modem bonding, e.g. boosty that can combine an ADSL line and 4G, but it does it via a mobile phone running their app.
Does anyone know something similar that allows bonding via ADSL and a 4G sim card (or dongle). I'd also want to be able to manage the data sharing between lines, so that the 4G is only used for certain data types and with a data cap.

Or any other ideas!

Thanks.

Orcvader · 24 Aug 2017 at 14:06

There's a way but it won't be cheap. Not to mention you'll struggle to find a good 4G provider that can provide a good amount of data for tethering (due to the traffic mobile networks will highly likely class it as this) Before going down the bonding route though, have you checked for other alternative providers? I'm guessing Openreach and Virgin doesn't provide fibre?

EDIT: Had a quick look at your location in your profile, does Vfast cover your home?: http://www.vfast.co.uk/coverage/

lsg1r · 24 Aug 2017 at 16:01

Can't say I've tried it but there is ADSL bonding. Basically 2 or more telephone lines with their own adsl lines attached which are then 'connected' at the router and supplier level. At the very least it would cost 2 line rentals and 2 adsl packages.

There's also ethernet to the premises (or last mile) but that is not cheap and when I say not cheap, I mean not even worth looking into unless you're a business and loaded lol.

As to the 4G, plenty of routers support failover and load balancing via a usb dongle (I know some draytek, fritz!box and billion routers do for example) but I've never looked into what it can or can't do etc because to put it simply I don't really have a need for it.

Rroff · 24 Aug 2017 at 16:06

Orcvader said:
Not to mention you'll struggle to find a good 4G provider that can provide a good amount of data for tethering

Voda currently do 50GB @ £30/m for tethering and there are ways to get a little more/lower cost slightly not amazing but if you are a moderate user it isn't too bad.

sith · 24 Aug 2017 at 16:59

As Rrof says, Vodafone do the 50GB package for £30 a month. It's not a bad package but will depend on your useage. I'm assuming no current Fibre prospect for your village?

BigT · 24 Aug 2017 at 17:42

What is it you do that the 20Mbit/s download of 4G won't be good enough that you want to bond another 6Mbit/s ADSL onto? I can't think it would make that much difference. I'm genuinely interested as to what it is you are looking to achieve because I have a poor DSL connection and a half decent 4G connection and I do something else.

So I have a 4G router and a VDSL router (both neutered to act merely as modems) in front of a pfSense appliance that takes care of routing and particularly policy based routing. Essentially I create rules that route my work stuff that likes high speed and low latency through 4G and then other stuff via the fibre connection. This means my wife's iPad downloading app updates doesn't cripple my Skype business call. However my Linux ISO downloads, while slower being routed on DSL, don't take up any of my precious 4G bandwidth allowance.

Let us know why you're looking to bond and we might have some ideas. For example, if it's to be able to stream Netflix and download Linux ISOs at the same time without seeing buffering, I'd say ordering a second ADSL line and load balancing the connections will give acceptable results for less cost, but we need to know what the problem is you're trying to solve.

bremen1874 · 24 Aug 2017 at 17:49

I think you've slightly misread the OP's post.

He has a 6Mbps ADSL connection. He wants to supplement it with a mobile connection.

The question is what does the 6Mbps connection stop the OP doing that adding the mobile would fix?

Rroff · 24 Aug 2017 at 17:51

BigT said:
What is it you do that the 20Mbit/s download of 4G won't be good enough that you want to bond another 6Mbit/s ADSL onto? I can't think it would make that much difference. I'm genuinely interested as to what it is you are looking to achieve because I have a poor DSL connection and a half decent 4G connection and I do something else.

So I have a 4G router and a VDSL router (both neutered to act merely as modems) in front of a pfSense appliance that takes care of routing and particularly policy based routing. Essentially I create rules that route my work stuff that likes high speed and low latency through 4G and then other stuff via the fibre connection. This means my wife's iPad downloading app updates doesn't cripple my Skype business call. However my Linux ISO downloads, while slower being routed on DSL, don't take up any of my precious 4G bandwidth allowance.

Let us know why you're looking to bond and we might have some ideas. For example, if it's to be able to stream Netflix and download Linux ISOs at the same time without seeing buffering, I'd say ordering a second ADSL line and load balancing the connections will give acceptable results for less cost, but we need to know what the problem is you're trying to solve.

Then you have Windows 10 which will happily use up all your allowances on updates, etc. if you can't set the connection as metered and it tries its hardest to prevent you doing that unless its 110% identified as a mobile connection and even then at times it seems to ignore it.

BigT · 24 Aug 2017 at 17:55

bremen1874 said:
I think you've slightly misread the OP's post.

He has a 6Mbps ADSL connection. He wants to supplement it with a mobile connection.

The question is what does the 6Mbps connection stop the OP doing that adding the mobile would fix.

Point still stands though right, what's the problem trying to be solved here?

MissChief · 24 Aug 2017 at 18:04

I think he wants a faster connection? What he has is ok for general use but Netflix, sky on demand or digital games it's not great.

BigT · 24 Aug 2017 at 18:11

Sometimes people think they want a faster connection when, if you understand the problem trying to be solved, isn't actually the case. And bonding is quite expensive comparatively.

So take streaming. What's wrong with just buying and using the faster 4G - that'll be quick enough and dump the ADSL? Why go to the expense of bonding? Streaming might be OK at 6Mbit/s actually. Certainly I have no problems streaming Netflix at 3Mbit/s in everything except UHD. The real problem might be that streaming is crap if others are using the connection also. Well bonding isn't the smartest or most cost effective way to address that. Load balancing two ADSL connections might be - one for streaming and one for all other internet use. That's why I'm trying to understand the real symptoms being experienced.

Rroff · 24 Aug 2017 at 18:15

Yeah you can stream quite well from Netflix, etc. even on quite slow connections if nothing else is using the connection but it doesn't take much to cause streaming issues - even someone occasionally refreshing a webpage can cause much bigger streaming issues on a slower link - which won't necessarily be solved by relatively moderate increases in bandwidth.

Though now I'm on 80/20 FTTC even sharing practically nothing short of someone torrenting has any impact heh.

MissChief · 24 Aug 2017 at 18:19

Try watching a full 8-10 episodes of a Netflix show over a week and see how much of your 30GB you've used. As above, look into Fibre options, have you checked the Openreach where and when checker? On mobile so not going to link

BigT · 24 Aug 2017 at 18:22

Rroff said:
Yeah you can stream quite well from Netflix, etc. even on quite slow connections if nothing else is using the connection but it doesn't take much to cause streaming issues - even someone occasionally refreshing a webpage can cause much bigger streaming issues on a slower link - which won't necessarily be solved by relatively moderate increases in bandwidth.

Though now I'm on 80/20 FTTC even sharing practically nothing short of someone torrenting has any impact heh.

Exactly. Once you're on 80/20 VDSL or 200Mbit Virgin or something equivalent then you don't worry about these things, but in my experience for those of us on slower connections the problem is normally one of local contention rather than outright speed being the issue. Heck, gaming only requires low latency as apart from downloading the games, it requires very little bandwidth. But have someone else at home saturate the bandwidth, which kills your ping and the effect is horrible.

BigT · 24 Aug 2017 at 18:25

MissChief said:
Try watching a full 8-10 episodes of a Netflix show over a week and see how much of your 30GB you've used. As above, look into Fibre options, have you checked the Openreach where and when checker? On mobile so not going to link

So you'd agree that if streaming is the issue here then a 4G connection isn't going to be the solution due to the data caps, let alone bonding a 4G to ADSL? That's why it is important to know the problems being experienced. VDSL might not be the answer either, although I admit if it can be got then it probably would be no matter what is being experienced

rangor gubbins · 24 Aug 2017 at 20:55

Orcvader said:
There's a way but it won't be cheap. Not to mention you'll struggle to find a good 4G provider that can provide a good amount of data for tethering (due to the traffic mobile networks will highly likely class it as this) Before going down the bonding route though, have you checked for other alternative providers? I'm guessing Openreach and Virgin doesn't provide fibre?

EDIT: Had a quick look at your location in your profile, does Vfast cover your home?: http://www.vfast.co.uk/coverage/

Vfast is in my area apparently. I'd never heard of it before. Thanks for the info!!

lsg1r said:
Can't say I've tried it but there is ADSL bonding. Basically 2 or more telephone lines with their own adsl lines attached which are then 'connected' at the router and supplier level. At the very least it would cost 2 line rentals and 2 adsl packages.

There's also ethernet to the premises (or last mile) but that is not cheap and when I say not cheap, I mean not even worth looking into unless you're a business and loaded lol.

As to the 4G, plenty of routers support failover and load balancing via a usb dongle (I know some draytek, fritz!box and billion routers do for example) but I've never looked into what it can or can't do etc because to put it simply I don't really have a need for it.

Sounds like either 2 ADSL lines or ADSL + 4G is most affordable. I'll have a look at Draytek and other routers.

Rroff said:
Voda currently do 50GB @ £30/m for tethering and there are ways to get a little more/lower cost slightly not amazing but if you are a moderate user it isn't too bad.

sith said:
As Rrof says, Vodafone do the 50GB package for £30 a month. It's not a bad package but will depend on your useage. I'm assuming no current Fibre prospect for your village?

50 GB for £30 / month. That's a pretty good deal!
I don't think fibre is very likely this century where we live.

rangor gubbins · 24 Aug 2017 at 21:07

Openreach says:

We're working with government and industry to explore ways to bring Superfast fibre to as many people as possible but don't have a plan for your area yet.
You might consider co-funding fibre access in your community. Knowing there's a healthy demand in your area can also really help.

Exchange name: Doddington
Exchange status: Fibre enabled
Cabinet number: -
Technology: Pending - EO Line

rangor gubbins · 24 Aug 2017 at 21:21

BigT said:
Point still stands though right, what's the problem trying to be solved here?

MissChief said:
I think he wants a faster connection? What he has is ok for general use but Netflix, sky on demand or digital games it's not great.

BigT said:
Sometimes people think they want a faster connection when, if you understand the problem trying to be solved, isn't actually the case. And bonding is quite expensive comparatively.
So take streaming. What's wrong with just buying and using the faster 4G - that'll be quick enough and dump the ADSL? Why go to the expense of bonding? Streaming might be OK at 6Mbit/s actually. Certainly I have no problems streaming Netflix at 3Mbit/s in everything except UHD. The real problem might be that streaming is crap if others are using the connection also. Well bonding isn't the smartest or most cost effective way to address that. Load balancing two ADSL connections might be - one for streaming and one for all other internet use. That's why I'm trying to understand the real symptoms being experienced.

You might be right, perhaps we can just use 4G and no need for the ADSL line especially now I've seen that 40 GB 4G package from vodafone.
The problem we find is that our connection is OK for streaming if nothing else is using the internet connection, but constant buffering or just failed connections if other devices are using the connection. Plus downloading media is quite slow. The reason i was thinking of bonding ADSL and 4G is that for most of the time ADSL is just about good enough for us, but there's times when it's nowhere near enough so it would be good to be able to utilise 4G to increase capacity when needed. But a large download 4G package is expensive, hence the thought behind cheap ADSL + fast 4G.

BigT · 24 Aug 2017 at 21:38

So the problems you have don't surprise me and a well configured load balanced dual WAN solution will probably change things dramatically for you.

Having said that I didn't realise you were in Kent like me. A few of the people in our village have vFast and rate it highly. Their top end package isn't that much more expensive than fibre and it is unlimited. If you have line of sight to a transmitter (sadly I'm in a dip and can't see one) then I'd suggest trying it. On it's own it may be enough and if not then running it with the ADSL in a dual WAN configuration will be great I think.

rangor gubbins · 24 Aug 2017 at 21:57

Just been looking into vfast. Could be just the thing!