Adsl2/Adsl Max?

MeAnBoY · 2 May 2012 at 17:36

Long running issue with my internet at home, my connection has been about 512k

eek: ) for many years but after the turn of this year it went upto a colossal 1.4mb speed! Now it's been fluctuating for a few months and ran a speed test today which gave me a reading of ~0.7mb line

So, sat here at work I've decided to have another look at bt's wholesale checker which returned this result:

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 3Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 2Mbps and 5.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 3Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 2.5Mbps and 6.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 500Kbps and downstream line speed of 3Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 2.5Mbps and 6.5Mbps.

It appears that I can finally get out of the dark ages and move on slightly to a possbily 2.5/3mb line!

my question really is how do I get moved onto this higher speed? I'm sure I've seen that people have been moved onto the quicker speeds automatically? Help my sanity out with some moooaar speed guys!

Edit: Just read the sticky, I will post all the needed information from the router when I get back from work, appreciate you guys can't help without that information!

Tealc · 2 May 2012 at 20:12

ADSL2+ on a longer line can actually provide worse speeds than ADSL Max.

BTs tests are probably based on your location and it's relative distance from the exchange and perhaps from data from the DSLAM. It may not be much more than a guess.

What sort of line stats are you getting? Attenuation and noise margin results can often highlight line issues.

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 09:48

Here are the stats from my router - model is Netgear DG834G:

System Up Time 11:39:08
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 13681 17277 0 767 2780 01:33:20
LAN 100M/Full 29739 0 0 65 0 11:39:06
WLAN 11M/54M 702038 718866 0 17023 7639 11:38:58

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 672 kbps 864 kbps
Line Attenuation 50 db 27 db
Noise Margin 4 db 7 db

and from speedtest:

Seems like my speed has gone down again, argh!

Phemo · 3 May 2012 at 10:20

Your upload is faster than your download and your SNR is below the 6dB target so something is wrong there. I doubt you'd gain much at all to be honest.

More importantly, do you have extension wiring and have you tried the test socket?

Tealc · 3 May 2012 at 10:25

864kbps upload might suggest you are already be on ADSL2+. It's not always easy to find this out without getting into some detailed ADSL stats of your router. There are some ADSL products that boost upload (at a cost of lower download I'd imagine) so while it's unlikely you could be on one of them.

Your attenuation of 50 dB on both ADSL2+ and ADSL Max should be worth a fair bit more than 672 kbps download, maybe as much as 4-5 Mbit with a good line.

Have you tried plugging your router into the test socket or master socket. Internal telephone wiring can have a large effect on sync speed, noise and errors and removal of such wiring from the loop can highlight problems.

Your noise margin of 4dB suggests you are basically getting as much out of your line as it currently can and if it went much lower than that you'd experience drop outs and resyncs.

My guess would be that you have a poor line or line fault or maybe something adding noise to your line, either in your premises or on the BT loop.

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 10:27

Phemo said:
Your upload is faster than your download and your SNR is below the 6dB target so something is wrong there. I doubt you'd gain much at all to be honest.

More importantly, do you have extension wiring and have you tried the test socket?

Hi thanks for your reply.

I haven't tested from the master socket, I shall head off and do that now and post the results.

As for cables, I'm just using standard length one provided by the router. I guess this is what you meant, or have I missed the point here?

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 10:37

Ok so here are the results from the master socket.

System Up Time 00:05:47
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 4750 8119 0 6625 29668 00:05:15
LAN 100M/Full 573 0 0 294 0 00:05:45
WLAN 11M/54M 7406 5457 0 28825 6760 00:05:37

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 736 kbps 896 kbps
Line Attenuation 47 db 27 db
Noise Margin 4 db 7 db

Going to take the faceplate off now and see if there is a test socket lurking underneath.

Tealc · 3 May 2012 at 10:42

Not a big change in the master socket but notice the upload has crept up a little and you've got an extra 70 kbps on the download. So clearly it's not the distance the router was from the master socket that is causing the issue. Extensions are the hard wired cables running from the master socket to the secondary sockets around the house. They can be plugged in by adaptors and splitters or wired into the front plate itself. Any one of these could be attenuating your signal, or it might not be this at all but the test socket should be the only thing on your line if you test there. Everything from the test socket back to the exchange is BT Openreach's responsibility.

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 10:45

Test socket results..... :eek:

System Up Time 00:02:41
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 9566 17634 0 13282 160592 00:02:27
LAN 100M/Full 432 0 0 586 0 00:02:39
WLAN 11M/54M 8740 10108 0 159238 14564 00:02:31

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7008 kbps 992 kbps
Line Attenuation 48 db 25.5 db
Noise Margin 4 db 7 db

So, I am certainly leaving it in the test socket for the time being! However, why so much difference and also at the same time my noise margin is still sat at 4db where the target should be 6db? Does this even matter?

bledd · 3 May 2012 at 10:47

lmao, win

I've got an 'iplate' that I'll send you for free.

Send me a trust message, I'll post it tomorrow (assuming I can find it, it's at my mum's house, popping over there for food tonight)

If you leave the router plugged in for a while, you may find things improve further

Tealc · 3 May 2012 at 10:51

Right cool. A fair 6 Mbit increase right there.

Just proves it's always worth trying the test socket and posting your router stats on an internet forum.

So you've just proved that somewhere in your house wiring is adding some noise to your line. On the master faceplate you may have several extensions wired onto it. One or all all of them will be adding noise to the line. Find out which one it is by removing each in turn and testing in the master socket. Or remove them all and have a centrally connected router and landline basestation. Normal decent extensions shouldn't add any noise to a line but cheap pound shop/argos/etc ones can and will interfere with the ADSL signal. You may find one of the extensions isn't connected properly or has some moisture on it or something like that.

If you must have extensions think about replacing the wiring with proper twisted pair cable like BT would use.

The noise margin is usually set by the ISP via the DSLAM at the exchange. Think of it as a difference in sound levels between the background noise and the actual ADSL signal. A bigger number usually means a more stable connection but 4 dB may be perfectly fine.

This also goes to prove that you are indeed on ADSL2+ already. I don't think any ISP offered as much as 992 kbps on even the most specialist ADSL package and certainly not one that BT retail ever offers.

bledd · 3 May 2012 at 11:19

Also, just so you know mate, BT are only responsible for the main socket. After that they're not responsible, you'd have to get an electrician to replace the rest of the wiring.

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 11:27

Absolutely worth checking. I'm gobsmacked at how much difference there has been just by swapping socket.

I will post a picture of the socket wiring tonight, need to get off to work for now

thanks for both of your help, hugely appreciated in the pointers. Also sent you a trust message bledd.

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 16:24

@Tealc - Do you mean those pins next to the master socket?

Tealc · 3 May 2012 at 16:47

Looks like you have the ringer wire attached there.

Modern installations only need one pair of wires in Positions 2 and 5. The third wire (possibly the orange one in this) is not needed. If you can see numbers next to those IDC connection points look for 2 and 5 and make sure the blue pair is on them. Once you have disconnected the orange make sure both blues are fully pressed down and retry your router in the master socket. If the figures plummet back to previous levels then the extension is still compromised. Or just rip the three wires off completely and forget about extensions, this is what I did when I had line instability a while back.

Oh and it's well known for the ringer wire to slow down ADSL lines. Shame I didn't think of it earlier really. I just assume that people don't have them these days as they haven't been used for years, well not since the old days of pulse dialing anyway.

MeAnBoY · 3 May 2012 at 17:17

Ok brilliant, again thanks for your help.

So tonight I will rip out the orange one then test master socket, after that make sure point 2 and 5 are firmly in place.

What are these extensions actually for?

Also I can't carry on using the test socket because my phone line is apparently down and my alarm system is going nuts!

Tealc · 3 May 2012 at 17:31

I can't really comment on what your extensions are for. You would be the better judge of that. All I can see is that you have one wired extension in your master socket that uses the ringer wire. It could be that the extension runs to your alarm system and the previous location of your router. It could be that your alarm system is causing the problem, or the wiring between this socket and the extension socket, or somebody has pulled on the extension cable and created a small break in the cable. It could be the ringer wire is causing the problem. It could be the wires are in the wrong position and the orange is wired up instead of blue at both ends.

Regarding the point 2 and 5. It might not actually say on the plug which are 2 and 5 as there are normally 6 positions for wires, whereas yours only has 4. Start with that orange wire and explore from there. Ideally once you remove that orange wire from the circuit (and you might want to check both ends of that extension for the orange being connected) it'll remove the problem that caused your speed loss.