Advice on 2700X build

Munimentum

Munimentum

Munimentum

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So I was holding off to see how the 9xxx series ended performance wise but after seeing the prices I'm even more convinced that I want to go AMD. I intend to potentially replace the 2700x with the new AMD CPUs in future depending on how much better they end up being.

A few things/questions:

1. I will be using my current 980ti until either the 2080ti's reduce in price or I can see how the AMD cards perform next year so I don't need that with the build.
2. I will be buying a 1440p 144Hz monitor to combine with that once I know whether I'm going Freesync or Gsync
3. I don't intend to overclock as from what I can tell Ryzen doesn't overclock that well and it basically handles that on it's own, is that correct?
4. I'm open to suggestions for replacing components, these are just to give an idea for the overall build - memory specifically I've only stuck with the same kit for comparison. Also I have no idea on power supplies so I'm completely open to changing that if anyone knows better than I do.
5. I want a motherboard that has really good onboard audio and is good at overclocking if I do end up doing that in future. Otherwise I don't know enough about motherboards at all to make any comparisons.
6. Is 3200Mhz memory acceptable or is it better to choose the seperate components and change that to faster speeds? What is a 2700x best paired with?

I'm looking for advice on what combination to go with if anyone can help.

First option:

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £1,177.02 (includes shipping: £14.10)
​

And the second option:

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £1,276.53 (includes shipping: £12.60)
​

Is the Asus board worth paying an extra £100 and losing an extra SSD? I could potentially even drop the 1TB drive down to 250GB or something due to the extra SSD depending on how good that SSD is or even sell it seperately for £50 or something and increase the price difference.

Thanks!
 
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Hi

I would consider the Team Group L5 1TB SSD instead of the 970 EVO. If you are mainly gaming then you won't really notice a difference with load times. The NVMe drives are good for workstation builds or if you are moving large files around.

For the cooler you could easily go with the stock option until you decide whether you want to overclock or not. Something like a £40 Alpenfohn Brocken 3 would do fine though for that.

No real need for an 850W psu unless you want to go SLI/CF. A 650W is more than enough.

I would go with the Strix board over the Crosshair if you want better value for money. It is still a solid board for overclocking.


My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £939.49 (includes shipping: £12.60)
​
 
Munimentum said:
3. I don't intend to overclock as from what I can tell Ryzen doesn't overclock that well and it basically handles that on it's own, is that correct?

5. I want a motherboard that has really good onboard audio and is good at overclocking if I do end up doing that in future. Otherwise I don't know enough about motherboards at all to make any comparisons.
Click to expand...
Correct.
Automatic boosting of core clocks in fact clocks them such high, that it's harder to match gaming results with manual overclocking.
Games depend mostly on execution speed of couple threads and not all core clocks.
So more likely you would just get increased power consumption/heat output for slightly less performance.
Using upgrade path of AM4 is going to be lot better for getting longer usable life of platform.

Who knows if 7nm Zen 2s are going to have overclocking room.
Though AMD can really only win by clocking them as high as they go with reasonable TDP, so bigger overclocking room is unlikely.
(unless there's no extreme measures requiring wall to overcome like in current GloFo made Ryzens)

For sound card there's nothing in luxury priced motherboards.
Even biggest amount of hype doesn't guarantee it even being interference free.
There have been cases of interference in highest end motherboards even in this forum.
Also motherboard can't be kept over major system upgrades, unlike separate sound card.
Though if you're using speakers there's very little separate sound card can offer over integrated.

In case of headphones especially Creative has good features, giving also feel of distance besides direction with good headphones.
(don't need much over £100 headphones, which is "peanuts" compared to GPU prices)
Though especially if your head shape differs more from average, Creative might release new sound cards in near future with very good tech:
Head and ear shape customizable HRTF.
"Upstair's guy" forgot to standardize head shape, so "average head" using algorithm is more or less compromise in accuracy of binaural cues for everyone.


For motherboard this would have modern design CPU VRM step below top level in its trength and good for some overclocking:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...ocket-am4-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-6c1-as.html

Also this would certainly handle stock CPUs easily, along with some overclocking:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/scythe-scmg-5100-mugen-5-cpu-cooler-hs-046-sy.html
Its performance is only step behind luxury coolers. (no brand/marketing hype bloating price)

Again for best memory performance Ryzen likes Samsung B-die chips used by high end DIMMs...
Which of course cost more than other Samsung chips or Hynix chips.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-08l-tg.html


For PSU you can easily get at least 100W smaller.
Even 650W is enough for about any single graphics card PC without overclocking.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/seas...plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-05r-ss.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/seas...plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-05q-ss.html
Antec HCG Gold is basically same PSU, so you can get which one you like more.
Though there's Antec rep in forum and they might have UK office/support
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/antec-hcg-gold-750w-80-plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-24x-an.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/antec-hcg-gold-650w-80-plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-24w-an.html

In SSDs there really isn't much of practical home use speed difference between fastest NVME and "entry level" SATA drives.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AData/SX_8200_480_GB/13.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Crucial/BX500_480_GB/14.html
So that would be one very efficient way to lower budget.
Even without giving up on M.2 form factor.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/wd-b...-solid-state-drive-wds100t2b0b-hd-54n-wd.html
 
lee32uk said:
Hi

I would consider the Team Group L5 1TB SSD instead of the 970 EVO. If you are mainly gaming then you won't really notice a difference with load times. The NVMe drives are good for workstation builds or if you are moving large files around.

For the cooler you could easily go with the stock option until you decide whether you want to overclock or not. Something like a £40 Alpenfohn Brocken 3 would do fine though for that.

No real need for an 850W psu unless you want to go SLI/CF. A 650W is more than enough.

I would go with the Strix board over the Crosshair if you want better value for money. It is still a solid board for overclocking.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm not really all that bothered about price. My main worry is just not overpaying for something completely unnecessarily.

For the NVMe drive it's not only so much about performance as looks and convenience. It's less wires and clutter in the case in addition to potential extra performance in future just in case. That said, I can get something like an 860 evo NVMe for £190 instead if you think the performance difference across any ssd isn't worth it.

The cooler is mainly for asthetic and noise reasons and I'm happy to pay the extra £30 or so to get the Dark Rock pro. I expect it'll be fine for overclocking anyway since it generally competes quite well with even AIO's.

What difference is there between that Strix board and the Crosshair? Is it just overclocking related stuff?
 
EsaT said:
..
Click to expand...

Lots of information here, thanks!

I use headphones (Sennheiser RS180) - Is there much difference between onboard audio on either the crosshair or the Strix boards and a dedicated sound card? I've read that the difference is marginal these days which is why I've been thinking of moving away from it.

I asked this question in my last post but what important differences are there between that Strix mobo and the crosshair?

For memory, I was thinking of going for the Vengeance LPX 3200 memory as it's low profile to go with the Dark Rock Pro. How does this perform with the 2700x? Does this use this Samsung B-die that you say is best for Ryzen? If not, does the Team Dark Pro memory get enough clearance from the Dark Rock Pro?

I can't seem to find any reviews for that WD NVMe drive, has anyone had experience with that vs something like the 860 evo?

If the 850W PSU is the same price as the 750W should I just for the higher one or am I better off going for the 750W anyway?
 
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At the moment I'm currently leaning towards this:

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £1,246.53 (includes shipping: £12.60)​
​

The WD SSD is a placeholder for a 960 Evo which I can get for £190.

Are there any recommendations based on this revision?
 
Munimentum said:
I use headphones (Sennheiser RS180) - Is there much difference between onboard audio on either the crosshair or the Strix boards and a dedicated sound card? I've read that the difference is marginal these days which is why I've been thinking of moving away from it.


For memory, I was thinking of going for the Vengeance LPX 3200 memory as it's low profile to go with the Dark Rock Pro. How does this perform with the 2700x? Does this use this Samsung B-die that you say is best for Ryzen? If not, does the Team Dark Pro memory get enough clearance from the Dark Rock Pro?

I can't seem to find any reviews for that WD NVMe drive, has anyone had experience with that vs something like the 860 evo?

If the 850W PSU is the same price as the 750W should I just for the higher one or am I better off going for the 750W anyway?
Click to expand...
If there's no difference from integrated to separate sound cards, then there's no difference between better motherboards.
And for gaming with headphones question is about lot more than just conversion of digital signal to analog and avoiding interference: Binaural sound simulation.

RS180 should be one of the rare actually capable wireless headphones for gaming.
Listen first minute of this in stereo/with any effecs/processing disabled:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI
Compare to stereo:
https://youtu.be/d1_20T8x_OI?t=12m56s
Haven't found good recordings of Asus Sonic Studio algorithm.
But hyping of "Sonic Radar" on screen overlay isn't the most promising.
With good HRTF algorithm and good headphones you can tell directions just by listening.

VRM difference between Strix and Crosshair isn't significant, except in heavy overclocking.
So no sense to pay luxury for that.


Vengeance LPX 3200 isn't with Samsung B-die chips.
You'll recognise B-die from 14-14-14 latency at 3200 MHz
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communi...liste-alle-hersteller-08-10-18-a-1161530.html
Other chips likely don't have stability margins for that.
Which might be behind why Ryzen likes B-die so much for achieving 3000/higher memory speeds.

Intel has spent lot more resources over the years for tuning their DDR4 memory controllers, making it lot more forgiving for different chips.
AMD just lacked money/time for that for memory controller of Zen(1) CPUs, making memory controller more picky/"temperamental".
Though I'm not sure if people have had more success with latest BIOS/CPU microcode versions.

Anyway you don't need Dark Rock Pro level coolers except for heavier overclocking.
(except maybe for 9900K's real TDP)


WD Blue uses SATA signaling, just like Crucial MX500 whose practical speed difference to NVME PCI-e drives is minimal compared to price difference.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Crucial/MX500_M.2_1_TB/13.html
Only really bad drives would have clearly differing practical speed.
And if you consider warranty important, WD gives it same 5 year warranty as many lot more expensive drives have.


Max gaming power draw with 980 Ti will be around 400W and average gaming draw more like 350W.
So good 650W PSU would be nough for that.
750W PSU has really lots of margin.

Though non-reference 2080 Tis start to go into ridiculous level:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti_Gaming_X_Trio/31.html
Power efficiency just didn't improve much from not having much of architectural advance (except for that raytracing) or manufacturing node advance.
 
Just to check, what resolution are you currently playing at, and what refresh rate? Since you say you are not getting a 1440p monitor until you change GPU which could literally be 12 months from now.

It seems slight overkill to buy such a high end CPU/Mobo/RAM if your main gaming component is remaining static, especially given Zen2 will have released before you are likely to have changed your GPU. What other things do with your computer other than gaming to warrant going for the 2700 or 2700X?

I know you are not bothered about the cost, but you've stated you don't want to waste money also - buying something that you'll make no use or or that will add 1-2% increase in performance for 30-70% more cost seems like a waste. You could just as easily buy one of the Ryzen 5 2600 kits OCUK are doing for £400-odd which includes board, and 16GB 3000MHz RAM and have saved over £350 and lost next to nothing in performance terms. So when the real upgrade comes next year Zen2, and your new GPU, sell it all and replace it with a proper setup that will match your new GPU/Monitor combo, and may even get more features to boot. You'll have spent pretty much the same but end up with a better system (depending on other uses if not just gaming).

Either way, think carefully before splurging a load of cash when this isn't actually going to do much for you if it is only games you play.

EDIT: Did a quick basket check, £422 more - if you are only playing games seems wasteful.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £824.03 (includes shipping: £14.10)


You could easily sell the board and CPU next year for £100-150, giving you £422+(sellprice) let's say £550 for a CPU and board, and that could end up being much, much better for the long term.​
 
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Thanks for the replies!

I curently play at 1440p 60Hz

I won't necessarily be upgrading to Zen2 if the jump isn't huge. I'd happily stick with the 2700x for a couple of years if I needed to and from what I can see AMD will be keeping compatibility for the AM4 platform till 2020 so I could just drop in a CPU in a couple of years without replacing the motherboard so I went for the best motherboard to minimise having to replace that in future too.

For the GPU upgrade I'm mainly waiting to see if there are any 1080ti deals in black friday or otherwise if the 2080 starts creeping down in price in the next couple of months.

It's a good thought to get a cheaper CPU and board temporarily now and replace them next year, but looking at the basket comparison, the £550 you say would be by dropping £100 by going from top end 3200 ram to 3000 and dropping £10 on the PSU to 650 so in reality it would be £440 or so, which is still good but worth factoring in those differences. I have a 4770k at the moment also which I'm pretty sure would be comparable to a 2600 anyways and I wanted a more immediate upgrade. Also, don't forget if we're talking selling CPU+motherboard, I'd probably be able to get £300-£400 for that combination so worst case scenario if I did upgrade both it wouldn't be a huge loss.
 
Munimentum said:
I curently play at 1440p 60Hz
Click to expand...

Munimentum said:
I have a 4770k at the moment also which I'm pretty sure would be comparable to a 2600 anyways
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure that going from a 2600 or a 2700 is going to make much of a difference from a decently overclocked 4770K, seems like you just want to change some hardware as you are bored rather than needing to, and if that's the case fine. You've not said what you actually do with your computer, is it just gaming? :)
 
Oh sorry, yes it's pretty much exclusively gaming.

It is a little bit for the upgrade itch but also my current H100i that I have is starting to get noisy and I've been wanting a bigger SSD than my current 500GB model so it's a combination of things that's pushing me. I liked the idea of being able to sell my current computer as a whole rather than having to do it piece by piece. I also really like the Meshify C much better than the noisy Corsair Air 540 case that I have right now.

I suppose I could just buy a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler now and then wait for the new AMD CPU's next year.
 
Munimentum said:
my current H100i that I have is starting to get noisy
Click to expand...

Corsair usually replace them under warranty, have you contacted them? Obviously it has to be withing warranty period, heh.

Munimentum said:
I suppose I could just buy a Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler now and then wait for the new AMD CPU's next year.
Click to expand...

The thing is unless you are not hitting 60FPS at 1440p on all of your games, then until you change the monitor, or games aren't co-operating at 60fps then it's an itch to be scratched, rather than a gaping wound that needs immediate attention :)
 
Unfortunately it's years outside of it's warranty and I *think* it was a refurbished model from OcUK in the first place so I don't think it had normal warranty anyway.

Honestly I don't really track FPS but I have felt performance going downhill steadily. It could just be in my head/placebo of course but I don't think it is.

I think you're right though, I'm probably better off doing everything at once with a GPU and monitor at the same time rather than doing it little bits at a time and being worse off long term.
 
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