Advice on a work situation

ScBHavoK

ScBHavoK

ScBHavoK

Associate
Joined
24 Mar 2009
Posts
163
Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne
Hi,

Hoping someone here may be able to help me/ give a bit advice. This might be a bit long winded!

I have worked for a company for over 13 years and 2 weeks ago was told that someone is buying said company but I will be covered by tupe.

Current employer has 2 business with same name trading as different centres. my centre (A) is making money and will be sold. (B) centre is in liquidation so assets only will be bought.

New owner attends a few days later with a solicitor and tells me yes covered by tupe nothing will change with wages time served etc but one big change... my unit will close and I have to travel 3-4mile up the road to (B) centre along with there workforce.
I eventually come around to this and thought at least I still have a job.

A week later things were dragging and things didn't feel quite right and handover didn't take place when it was supposed to. So I had to work another week for current employer which by god I did! there was lots of things being made and sold shall we say.
My boss (owners partner) cleared her desk on Friday 6th July saying takeover should take place on Saturday and they will text me to let me know wether it has and if I have to go to (B) centre on the following Tuesday 10th July as I had a day holiday in for the Monday.
Didn't receive a text all weekend and into Monday so I text her on the Monday night asking where I am reporting to in the morning to which I was told "sorry I forgot to tell you handover took place Sunday and just go to centre (A) in the morning.

I then receive a call about an hour later from possible new employer saying can I have your email a few things have changed, look it over and get back to me! I say ok as didn't know what to expect.
Email came through and its a new job offer, offering a lot less money than I currently make and saying how things didn't go as planned and he is just buying assets. Please let me know asap if you want to take this offer! and I will have to resign with current employer before I can be employed by them.

I replied with please give me some time to seek some advice before I proceed and I thought I was covered by tupe etc.... he replies with no longer covered by tupe as just buying assets transfer of business not happening!

So I go back to current employer explaining what was said and she seemed shocked and would get solicitor involved in morning and for me to ring them around 10am.
I do so and I was eventually told later in the day that this was the case but at least I had a job to go to etc. Can I resign with them as it will be a few months before he will go for voluntary liquidation for centre (A) and I may end up with nothing!!

I have tried ringing acas and they weren't much help and now feel a bit stuck tbh as I believe I may be entitled to 12 weeks pay and 12 weeks redundancy as i'm 35.

Today I had a text from him asking if I had took job offer up yet to which I replied no and don't think I will as i'm still employed with yourself. I get reply saying yes but I would advise you resign and take new job for long term future!

He replies back with the same thing over and over … I would advise you resign etc but in the end he says as good will gesture I will pay you to end of month.

I was sick at this point and replied give me 3 month pay and I will resign. But i'm still waiting on a text back from 2pm today.

Don't know what to do going forward now as I am still employed under current employer on a better pay but I cant physically work for him as he has no tools/machinery now for me to do any work.
I was contemplating calling him saying i'm at centre (B) now ready for work what would you like me to do! surely if he has nothing for me he has to make me redundant?

I don't have much time frame with possible new employer as he will want to know if i'm going to work for him or not.

I have probably missed a few bits out I hope this makes sense on the whole and someone can help.

Thanks for your time.
 
I can't help very much, you need to see a solicitor for sure on this. What I do know is that the TUPE process sucks generally anyway, it's suppose to protect the employee but to be honest the whole process is just a PITA and you may keep your job but we want you to go 30 miles away. I guess you are lucky that it was only 4 miles.

I'm not sure but if they have already started the TUPE process they can't just back out, but again I am not an expert.

Sorry to hear your having all that hassle, I went through something like that for a large company and it was a hard time, chin up maybe just go and find a better more highly paid job?
 
ScBHavoK said:
I have tried ringing acas and they weren't much help and now feel a bit stuck tbh as I believe I may be entitled to 12 weeks pay and 12 weeks redundancy as i'm 35.

Today I had a text from him asking if I had took job offer up yet to which I replied no and don't think I will as i'm still employed with yourself. I get reply saying yes but I would advise you resign and take new job for long term future!

He replies back with the same thing over and over … I would advise you resign etc but in the end he says as good will gesture I will pay you to end of month.

I was sick at this point and replied give me 3 month pay and I will resign. But i'm still waiting on a text back from 2pm today.

Don't know what to do going forward now as I am still employed under current employer on a better pay but I cant physically work for him as he has no tools/machinery now for me to do any work.
I was contemplating calling him saying i'm at centre (B) now ready for work what would you like me to do! surely if he has nothing for me he has to make me redundant?
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I'd definitely get some advice on this but if you've got a job still with your current employer then he ought to go through the proper process to make you redundant rather than just telling you he'll pay you till the end of the month as a "good will gesture". Is this taking place via text/e-mail rather than phone calls as it would likely might useful for you to have a record of it.

I'd go and see a solicitor specialising in employment law if I were you, I mean they've flogged the assets but you're still an employee then there is a process for them to follow to make you redundant and if they don't follow it then, well, I guess your solicitor can advise.

Lastly is there any good reason to take the low ball offer from the new company? Are you overpaid in your current role? If not then I don't see why you need jump at the chance to go work for him for less pay rather than just looking for a new role anywhere.
 
I wouldn't resign, if there's any chance of redundancy from the company closing/going into liquidation then you'll be doing yourself out of a payout.

The whole things sounds very dodgy so as above, seek legal advice and start looking for new jobs just in case
 
Wizzkidy said:
I can't help very much, you need to see a solicitor for sure on this. What I do know is that the TUPE process sucks generally anyway, it's suppose to protect the employee but to be honest the whole process is just a PITA and you may keep your job but we want you to go 30 miles away. I guess you are lucky that it was only 4 miles.

I'm not sure but if they have already started the TUPE process they can't just back out, but again I am not an expert.

Sorry to hear your having all that hassle, I went through something like that for a large company and it was a hard time, chin up maybe just go and find a better more highly paid job?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply I wish it was as easy finding a higher paid job everything I’m seeing listed is min wage or just above. As it is I wouldn’t say I’m on the greatest wage for a semi skilled person with 15 year industry experience ...£20,800 per annum (embarrassing)

Loves Love Island said:
I'd definitely get some advice on this but if you've got a job still with your current employer then he ought to go through the proper process to make you redundant rather than just telling you he'll pay you till the end of the month as a "good will gesture". Is this taking place via text/e-mail rather than phone calls as it would likely might useful for you to have a record of it.

I'd go and see a solicitor specialising in employment law if I were you, I mean they've flogged the assets but you're still an employee then there is a process for them to follow to make you redundant and if they don't follow it then, well, I guess your solicitor can advise.

Lastly is there any good reason to take the low ball offer from the new company? Are you overpaid in your current role? If not then I don't see why you need jump at the chance to go work for him for less pay rather than just looking for a new role anywhere.
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Yes taking place by text message or email

Only reason to take low offer is ongoing work and I won’t be unemployed as there isnt many jobs available for my role going at the minute.

Would a solicitor not cost me from the off? I probably couldn’t afford it unfortunately

Thanks for the reply
 
Yes a solicitor would cost you, you'd probably get an initial reply from one for free in answer to your e-mail about your situation and then you'd need to pay for an initial consultation and pay for them to write a letter etc.. they'll advise you on costs. It could still be worthwhile to at least find one locally that you can e-mail and pay for an initial consultation + letter to your employer. You never know, that in itself could prompt him to seek advice from his solicitor and perhaps get told that he ought to go through a proper process to make you redundant.
 
ScBHavoK said:
Thanks for the reply I wish it was as easy finding a higher paid job everything I’m seeing listed is min wage or just above. As it is I wouldn’t say I’m on the greatest wage for a semi skilled person with 15 year industry experience ...£20,800 per annum (embarrassing)
Click to expand...

You have worked for the company for 13 years and you have a 20 grand salary to show for it. Something is not right in itself with this. Maybe you need a career change? I don't know how old you are but if it was me I couldn't sit in the same role for 13 years to only get a salary of that number but thats just me. Granted I don't know the industry and I guess this day and age you just don't get rewarded for good service but I feel that's wrong.

In most industries you move for better prospects and pay, unless this industry is very different I'm sure you need to keep looking. Ever thought of moving elsewhere in the country to better your job searching?
 
Loves Love Island said:
Yes a solicitor would cost you, you'd probably get an initial reply from one for free in answer to your e-mail about your situation and then you'd need to pay for an initial consultation and pay for them to write a letter etc.. they'll advise you on costs. It could still be worthwhile to at least find one locally that you can e-mail and pay for an initial consultation + letter to your employer. You never know, that in itself could prompt him to seek advice from his solicitor and perhaps get told that he ought to go through a proper process to make you redundant.
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Think it’s going to have to be my next step thanks

Wizzkidy said:
You have worked for the company for 13 years and you have a 20 grand salary to show for it. Something is not right in itself with this. Maybe you need a career change? I don't know how old you are but if it was me I couldn't sit in the same role for 13 years to only get a salary of that number but thats just me. Granted I don't know the industry and I guess this day and age you just don't get rewarded for good service but I feel that's wrong.

In most industries you move for better prospects and pay, unless this industry is very different I'm sure you need to keep looking. Ever thought of moving elsewhere in the country to better your job searching?
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I’m 35 and yes 13 years service not had a pay rise for 5 year.
I’m a sign maker/fitter and my pay is about right for the industry £10 per hour.
most jobs around where I am are just above min wage from what I can see. I feel I’m probably a bit too old to start a new trade now but that’s just me.
The annoying thing is when i left school I trained to be a mechanical engineer with a company called
myson engineering and qualified with level 3 Nvqs in subject. But as part of training I had a work based training with a sign company and I have stuck with it since unfortunately. When I started the signs in 2000 the fitters were on £14 per hour and with overtime they come home with at least £600+ a week back then so thought it looked good! Sadly the industry has got poorer and poorer.
 
ScBHavoK said:
I’m 35 and yes 13 years service not had a pay rise for 5 year.
I’m a sign maker/fitter and my pay is about right for the industry £10 per hour.
most jobs around where I am are just above min wage from what I can see. I feel I’m probably a bit too old to start a new trade now but that’s just me.
The annoying thing is when i left school I trained to be a mechanical engineer with a company called
myson engineering and qualified with level 3 Nvqs in subject. But as part of training I had a work based training with a sign company and I have stuck with it since unfortunately. When I started the signs in 2000 the fitters were on £14 per hour and with overtime they come home with at least £600+ a week back then so thought it looked good! Sadly the industry has got poorer and poorer.
Click to expand...

If you have some skills in engineering why not try and get your foot in the door, lots of people move careers at 35 its nothing new or something to not take into consideration. You say people were earning 600+ a week back in 2000, this would have made you 17 or 18 years old back then, are you sure this was true when you heard about that? because that never materialised for you, this may be the start of something good for you if you look long and hard at ALL your options, don't shy away from doing something different that's all i'm saying :)
 
as above legal advice is what you need here, I wouldn't resign due to any redundancy payout etc. maybe have a word with the person who has offered you a job and say you are just trying to negotiate your leaving terms with your old employer and see if they will give you some time if that is a job you want to take.
 
This is why you don’t hedge your bets on staying with an employer for life now, at 35 you can quite easily change careers or advance your skills. Your wage isn’t far off a starting salary at most places so you can pretty much do anything you’d like :)
 
Firstly as said I'd say legal advice and fight your corner.

But thinking about the present and the immediate future, not the past (even if yesterday you were on better money :mad: ), I'd look into a career shift. You have mech eng skills with signmaking experience. That's a solid skillset for CNC and rapid prototyping work. Have you any knowledge of CAD software and such? Even workshop management/technician type work might offer a good route. If you can afford a paycut for a year or two it's worth moving sideways or retraining IMO.

Also, don't rule out a degree. I went to uni at 26 so a bit earlier than you but still, I had only level 2 qualifications and had to persuade my way in. Best thing I ever did, seriously. Learned so much, opened up whole new career path options, plus landed in a much better job than I'd ever had. :)
 
Do not resign under any circumstances at this stage, you have a number of protections offered if they make you redundant including the ability to collect benefits (social not company). If you resign you lose these. Do you have a company pension?

They are trying to limit liabilities/costs of the sale by doing this. It's fairly common but underhand.

New owner will need staff, if they don't tupe you and make you redundant they are still likely to need to re-hire you but you have achieved your payout first.
 
Talk to a decent HR legal advisor.

If I needed one, I would find one by recommendation rather than just a search online (I don't know any, or I'd give their details here!).

They will probably give a free 30-60 minute consultation over the phone and you can take it from there. If they believe you have a case to answer (which is sounds like you do - new owner is trying to stitch you up / shortchange you), then they will probably take their charges from the company.

To put this in perspective Employment Tribunals (which this could well end up at) are expensive when you factor in all the legal costs, paperwork and the tribunal itself (50-60 grand for example), which will seriously outweigh the cost of them doing right by you (to avoid a Tribunal).

Good luck.
 
Echo the above. Don't resign, they will need to get rid of you some way and it sounds like it would have to be making you redundant, and pay for that, too.

While this is all going on, I'd have a look at the market and start putting yourself out there.
 
Do not resign.

If **** hit the fan you might have issues claiming JSA and the like as you voluntarily made yourself unemployed. Usually they are OK if there is a good enough reason for qutting, but a relocation of 4 miles and a dodgy new boss might not be good enough.

Legal advice all the way here though. Sounds like you're being ripped off.
 
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