Advice on asking for a pay increase?

Richeh · 11 Jan 2024 at 00:15

Just thought I would put this out there.

I was self employed 2020 - March 2021. This didn't work out unfortunately.

I was then involved with the Jobcentre for the first time until Jan 2022 where I gained full time remote employment until July 2023 - However, not the work but manager changed who was somewhat unbearable so I decided to start looking. I then took a new job from 31st July 2023, just an interview with previous 'IT Guy' no references required but just a few 'test' questions etc

This led to a local remote/hybrid job that pays £24.5k but essentially a project lead. It involves a property management company of 6-7 main employees and I was mainly in charge with seeing if the current system they were using is suitable or if there were better options. I researched extensively into this area to gain as much knowledge as possible and found a (more expensive but market leading) alternative which the owner of the company accepted as I secured a 50% discount over what a standard firm would pay. The switchover is happening on Monday. I have advised due to the nature of the work there is around 75% of stuff that cannot be done until the switch (nature of this market) but I will be on hand to help and in the office - the office consists of around 4 very non-technical people. We got essentially a 'demo' account which I asked the office just to explore and this ended in tears!

I have had the previous 'IT contact' for this who is someone who previously worked/helped with the business for the last 6 years but actually has their own full time IT job. Ie the previous IT guy who did recommend the owner that they need a full time IT person as in me. The owner owns several businesses, the property management company as said as well as a Jazz bar and several other businesses that i'm not aware of.

As we are going live with the new system on Monday which essentially is to reduce manual work, keep the 'office' employee's to the minimum whilst we expand from say 80 properties to 500+ without needing to recruit extra staff to manage as the process is that much more automated.

i will have been here in 6 months from the end of January/beginning of February and today was asked to manage the updates on the Jazz club website.

Looking at what I consider I am doing, ie IT project lead the wages around are much higher. I don't need this but feel requesting a reasonable wage for this role ie someone who gets paid more than a Supermarket truck driver is warranted.

Am I just being silly, my main goal is secure employment with a known wage but I just feel the current wage is well below what I being asked to do especially with the new addition. It is a very tight knit group. The office manager is the ex-gf of the owner, the main customer support person is the sister of the office manager etc I get paid so I am happy but would like to see others opinions on this matter as you can see it is a difficult situation to navigate!

Any help appreciated.

brendy · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:03

Honestly, for a small concern like this (several small businesses), my advice would be to get out and find a more focussed job. Its not IT project lead you are doing, its IT dogsbody (no disrespect, plenty of us have been down that avenue at some point). Given the small head count and that someone was able to do it part time, I dont think a raise would be awfully successful or if it was, much. Now, that said, if you enjoyed the job, then crack on but I wouldnt expect much more in the way of pay increases.

HangTime · 18 Jan 2024 at 14:54

Yeah "project lead" in an org of 6-7 people is a lot different from project lead in an org of hundreds or thousands of people. And by different I mean fundamentally different, probably a lot more hands-on responsbility in some areas, much more enterprise-wide decision making, and also a lot less process/scrutiny on your approach. So neither good/bad more/less senior, just different in the purest sense.

Sub-£25k sounds very low for what you are doing. But to echo the above they are not going to double your salary overnight, a small org like this will just be wanting a cheap body to do "IT Stuff". Especially given:

Richeh said:
I have had the previous 'IT contact' for this who is someone who previously worked/helped with the business for the last 6 years but actually has their own full time IT job. Ie the previous IT guy who did recommend the owner that they need a full time IT person as in me.

So basically until 6 months ago they had no in-house IT. So you are an extra headcount draining money from them, they don't want to increase that drain. I'm being deliberately facetious here, probably you are adding lots of value but they won't see it that way.

Finally as a general point, if you've been somewhere less than 6 months, expecting a big pay rise is quite optimistic. I'm not saying you don't deserve it, but the reality is you probably took an initial salary that was too low and will be locked into that sort of level until you leave.

BennyC · 20 Jan 2024 at 22:04

Evidencing market rate for the role or similar work is probably the best approach. Expect them to call your bluff and be prepared to leave. They'll need to weigh up the opportunity cost and disruption of losing you.

Don't be quite so direct but simply explain you feel undervalued, the market confirms this but that you like it there and would love to stay but need to be remunerated fairly for the work you do.

If they ask you for a number be precise, never give a range because it'll always be the bottom end that you're offered.

Richeh · 2 Mar 2024 at 23:08

Well you guys were somewhat on the mark. I never mentioned money, decided I would until the year mark before mentioning anything.

Original agreement was 3 half days in the office per week and the rest remote but as we have done the big changeover of systems over the last couple of months with many extra hours put in on my part as some of it was very rushed due to waiting on our web developers the ladies in the office needed more help so I was in the office every day from 9-2 to answer any questions then working from the home for the rest of the day and putting in hours on the weekend as well. Not asked for but lots to do and made it easier for me in the week with all the 'little' IT questions from the office itself. Didn't ask for any extra pay or anything as I was enthusiastic about the job.

Next week I was going to ask the owner about going back to working from home for 2 days of the week as 90% of the stuff needed was done, they have just hired a full time marketing person to push out nationwide now the new system is in place and pretty much set automation wise.

Was in the office in the yesterday morning, see you Monday, went home, took 4 calls from one of the ladies on how to do a couple of things. 4:50pm get an email from the owner that my services are no longer required and giving me my notice. On garden leave as well so 'don't come back into the office'. By 5pm my access to all the accounts etc were disabled, couldn't even login to my work laptop and couldn't even access the email notifying me of my dismissal. Absolutely fuming. Was advised by the owner via whatsapp that nothing personal, harsh winter and the numbers just didn't add up. Really devastated as had put so much time and effort into it and just the cowardly nature of the dismissal. I am a bit old fashioned and would have taken it much better (although still angry as they basically hired me to do all the leg work and once done just got rid of me) had it been done in person.

SuperElectric · 3 Mar 2024 at 01:49

Richeh said:
Well you guys were somewhat on the mark. I never mentioned money, decided I would until the year mark before mentioning anything.

Original agreement was 3 half days in the office per week and the rest remote but as we have done the big changeover of systems over the last couple of months with many extra hours put in on my part as some of it was very rushed due to waiting on our web developers the ladies in the office needed more help so I was in the office every day from 9-2 to answer any questions then working from the home for the rest of the day and putting in hours on the weekend as well. Not asked for but lots to do and made it easier for me in the week with all the 'little' IT questions from the office itself. Didn't ask for any extra pay or anything as I was enthusiastic about the job.

Next week I was going to ask the owner about going back to working from home for 2 days of the week as 90% of the stuff needed was done, they have just hired a full time marketing person to push out nationwide now the new system is in place and pretty much set automation wise.

Was in the office in the yesterday morning, see you Monday, went home, took 4 calls from one of the ladies on how to do a couple of things. 4:50pm get an email from the owner that my services are no longer required and giving me my notice. On garden leave as well so 'don't come back into the office'. By 5pm my access to all the accounts etc were disabled, couldn't even login to my work laptop and couldn't even access the email notifying me of my dismissal. Absolutely fuming. Was advised by the owner via whatsapp that nothing personal, harsh winter and the numbers just didn't add up. Really devastated as had put so much time and effort into it and just the cowardly nature of the dismissal. I am a bit old fashioned and would have taken it much better (although still angry as they basically hired me to do all the leg work and once done just got rid of me) had it been done in person.

That's the problem with being undervalued, they don't see it as a bargain so 'must keep this guy', they see you as disposable

Sorry it worked out that way. At least your CV has had a major boost, and the next job will come a little easier, with more pay.

A2Z · 3 Mar 2024 at 04:37

Sounds like they did you a favour so you can find another job sooner rather than later where you are not being taken advantage of and underpaid.

Housey · 3 Mar 2024 at 10:30

Give me the money **** sucker

Various ways to deliver it just watch The Usual Suspects.

HACO · 7 Mar 2024 at 19:29

Richeh said:
Well you guys were somewhat on the mark. I never mentioned money, decided I would until the year mark before mentioning anything.

Original agreement was 3 half days in the office per week and the rest remote but as we have done the big changeover of systems over the last couple of months with many extra hours put in on my part as some of it was very rushed due to waiting on our web developers the ladies in the office needed more help so I was in the office every day from 9-2 to answer any questions then working from the home for the rest of the day and putting in hours on the weekend as well. Not asked for but lots to do and made it easier for me in the week with all the 'little' IT questions from the office itself. Didn't ask for any extra pay or anything as I was enthusiastic about the job.

Next week I was going to ask the owner about going back to working from home for 2 days of the week as 90% of the stuff needed was done, they have just hired a full time marketing person to push out nationwide now the new system is in place and pretty much set automation wise.

Was in the office in the yesterday morning, see you Monday, went home, took 4 calls from one of the ladies on how to do a couple of things. 4:50pm get an email from the owner that my services are no longer required and giving me my notice. On garden leave as well so 'don't come back into the office'. By 5pm my access to all the accounts etc were disabled, couldn't even login to my work laptop and couldn't even access the email notifying me of my dismissal. Absolutely fuming. Was advised by the owner via whatsapp that nothing personal, harsh winter and the numbers just didn't add up. Really devastated as had put so much time and effort into it and just the cowardly nature of the dismissal. I am a bit old fashioned and would have taken it much better (although still angry as they basically hired me to do all the leg work and once done just got rid of me) had it been done in person.

Consider the positive, you're leaving a toxic employer and they're paying you to find a new job, it's much better than the alternative (letting you go and asking you to work your full notice).

Stu999 · 7 Mar 2024 at 19:38

Sounds like they were just fundamentally dishonest about what they wanted, e.g. someone to manage the move to the new system rather than a permanent role.

dowie · 7 Mar 2024 at 22:50

Richeh said:
4:50pm get an email from the owner that my services are no longer required and giving me my notice. On garden leave as well so 'don't come back into the office'. By 5pm my access to all the accounts etc were disabled, couldn't even login to my work laptop and couldn't even access the email notifying me of my dismissal.

That is bad, just outright rude of the guy since it's such a small business. You'd maybe expect it from say some large bank laying off a load of people, they want to minimise potential damage done by disgruntled former employees but with a small business, he could have just talked to you at the end of the shift.

Better still he should have been upfront/hired you as a contractor in the first place if the whole purpose was simply to get someone to do this one project. In retrospect, it makes sense as it's probably not worthwhile having a full-time IT person for such a small office even if the Karens working there do have queries about the new software but they should have been honest about that.