Advice on new job at startup

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1 Jul 2017
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London
Hello all!

A few months ago I had an interview for what seemed like a great job for me, that I was very excited about. A tiny startup with a few people. All went well. After the interview they gave me a test to do a couple of weeks later (at home - programming type). I was then asked to come back for a second interview later on. Okay this is getting quite a few hoops to jump through I thought for the end which probably won't be that much pay - but it's a job right up my street and something I've always wanted to do.

Few weeks passed by, then I was invited to go out with the people who worked there. I thought this is a good sign and I guess it means I have the job. The others seemed nice, further contributing to how positive I'm feeling about the job. Got on great. I was a bit alarmed at when they said they haven't received a contract yet, which my response was then asking if they had been paid - they had. So that alarm bell was put to rest.

I was told finally I had the job at the end of the night and the owner said he would contact me in the next week about the next stages. I waited two weeks then followed it up. He said he was waiting on a few financing/investment things to go through before we can proceed next, but he'll give me an update within the week.

Week and a half goes by, I email again. Same story, still waiting on things, will email within the week. Two weeks go by again, nothing, I follow it yet again, same story, will have an update for me within the week. Been two weeks now and still no update.

I think at this point I am not going to bother following it up anymore and move on, try to find another job, even though it seemed like a perfect opportunity for me. The no contracts yet thing for the people who work there, not bothering to get back to me when you say you would (I know people can be busy, hence why I always gave some extra time) etc is making me think perhaps this is for the best, it could turn out to be a bumpy/disorganised job/company. The owner is certainly starting to paint that picture to me. I don't doubt they are waiting to secure more funds, but why not wait until you have those before recruiting people? I did my research too on the owner, seems his past companies are no longer going, all went into liquidation when he was there. So yeah, overall not painting a good picture of him.

Any advice? Move on and forget about it? Keep following up? I'll be heartbroken in a way to not do it! Thanks!
 
Think of it this way, if you were chasing your pay like you're chasing the 'next stages' would you be impressed.

Sounds like a cowboy outfit run by someone that bounces from business to business and failing at them.

Start ups could be great, but you need strong leadership, you need faith in that leader and you need need to believe in what you're doing.

If I was you, i'd consider this a blessing and walk away. You've got the job, you've passed all their tests but they haven't passed yours.
 
Been no mention of what I'll get paid yet, if I ever start. I have a feeling it will be in the low end, which I would have been okay with originally as it appeared to be my dream job. However, with the current "messing around", I think it would just be insulting really! I guess if finally I did start and the salary was nice, it would be worth this wait.
 
'Im very sorry to do this but in light of the continued delays I've had to start applying for other positions. Im sure you understand there are still bills that need to be paid and responsibilities that I have to others. I'm still very interested in the role and giving my very best to you and your company, please get in touch if I can be of any assistance.' Or some similarly worded email or letter.

He's stringing you along IMO. Either he's looking for someone better, someone who will take less money (maybe even both!) or doesn't have the finances at this stage to take you on. I would start looking elsewhere.
 
sounds like a complete farce from the start... I mean two weeks after the first interview before they sent you the take home project/test, then various other weeks delay and you've been given a job offer without actually being offered an amount? If the others don't have a contract then presumably there are not options or equity involved in this?

If I were you I'd interview for more than one job at once, this isn't just because one might turn out to be naff but also because it is much better to have competing offers - stops you from being screwed in terms of pay etc.. would have been much better after a couple of weeks into this process to have simply been able to e-mail them to tell them you've got a competing offer.
 
sounds like a complete farce from the start... I mean two weeks after the first interview before they sent you the take home project/test, then various other weeks delay and you've been given a job offer without actually being offered an amount? If the others don't have a contract then presumably there are not options or equity involved in this?

If I were you I'd interview for more than one job at once, this isn't just because one might turn out to be naff but also because it is much better to have competing offers - stops you from being screwed in terms of pay etc.. would have been much better after a couple of weeks into this process to have simply been able to e-mail them to tell them you've got a competing offer.

I was told there are those options for equity at the interview. They've also told me 9 weeks holiday a year :p. That's all apparently though. When I met the other people who work there and said how generous it seems, they said they weren't sure as nothing is set in stone yet due to no contracts.

I did think I was being strung along potentially until someone else better comes along.

A few real life friends think it sounds like the most unprofessional place they've ever heard of!

He's been very apologetic in his emails, saying things are taking longer than expected, and it's been a very frustrating process for them.

'Im very sorry to do this but in light of the continued delays I've had to start applying for other positions. Im sure you understand there are still bills that need to be paid and responsibilities that I have to others. I'm still very interested in the role and giving my very best to you and your company, please get in touch if I can be of any assistance.' Or some similarly worded email or letter.

He's stringing you along IMO. Either he's looking for someone better, someone who will take less money (maybe even both!) or doesn't have the finances at this stage to take you on. I would start looking elsewhere.

Odd thing really. Why interview people if you don't have the finances yet. Seems to be getting ahead of yourself!
 
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Well I certainly wouldn't be joining anywhere with a vague promise of equity, you'd need to get that in writing for sure.


'Im very sorry to do this but in light of the continued delays I've had to start applying for other positions. Im sure you understand there are still bills that need to be paid and responsibilities that I have to others. I'm still very interested in the role and giving my very best to you and your company, please get in touch if I can be of any assistance.' Or some similarly worded email or letter.

I'd just apply, I wouldn't tell them you've applied for other positions, frankly they ought to expect that you have anyway. Tell them if you get an offer from elsewhere otherwise if you apply and you don't get other offers then that could affect your offer from them (on the off chance you get one and want to accept it).
 
I have to say, having been there and been the **** person at managing all of this, it sounds about right for what it is. I mean, if the company is a startup, the chances are they don't have an HR department. They won't have well oiled processes like most companies and hell, there will be one dude probably trying to do everything at once. This is why I'd say it is probably normal for the situation.
Having said that, I would also make sure you understand what their current funding is like and what their burn rate is. They should be able to tell you this, as you want to be able to see what the runway is like, so you can make sure you can get paid. Also, understanding what happens at the end of that runway; are they seeking more funding etc? If you're being brought in with equity, you will share in this, so it's important for you to know that as well.
Those are the key things I'd be interested in, and when it comes to equity ensure that you know what the vesting period is on it as well. Ours is 4yrs (25% per year), so we don't give the x% and they do one after 6 months and take a chunk of the company with them. You want to make sure you know this too.

The work can be fun and varied and you normally get a lot of freedom to do interesting things, but it also comes with a bit of unstructured informality as well, as you try and build your product, team and processes all at once.

Hope it's helpful
 
I moved to London ~2002 based on a similar premise - was a fair size team as well about 40 people IIRC waiting to start, funds never materialised - 2006 I moved back home for various reasons - 2-3 years after moving home they contacted me out the blue to ask if I was still interested and they still couldn't offer a definite start date. Was a job I quite wanted as well. Sometimes these things just don't work out - I wish back then I'd spent a bit more time exploring a broader range of options and less time focused on that one job.
 
As others have said, walk away. A startup could have the greatest idea in the world but it means nothing without the ability to execute. If its just one guy trying to do everything to run a business, that's a huge red flag to me, never mind the endless delays and no contracts for the existing staff. The guy is going to need to learn to delegate tasks, it sounds very much like he doesn't understand that. Its boring admin stuff, but absolutely has to be done.

My very first job in the 1980's was a startup. Contract of employment was handed to me when the job offer was made. These things are standard nowadays, you can download them off the internet and fill in a few blanks.
 
As others have said, walk away. A startup could have the greatest idea in the world but it means nothing without the ability to execute. If its just one guy trying to do everything to run a business, that's a huge red flag to me, never mind the endless delays and no contracts for the existing staff. The guy is going to need to learn to delegate tasks, it sounds very much like he doesn't understand that. Its boring admin stuff, but absolutely has to be done.

My very first job in the 1980's was a startup. Contract of employment was handed to me when the job offer was made. These things are standard nowadays, you can download them off the internet and fill in a few blanks.

It's two running it. It's their second one. From my online research they had a previous one together for ten years that went into liquidation.

I emailed a few weeks ago asking what the news is. Was told still sorting out the finances and they'd email me by the end of last week. Still waiting..of course! Just the same story over and over again.
 
It's two running it. It's their second one. From my online research they had a previous one together for ten years that went into liquidation.

I emailed a few weeks ago asking what the news is. Was told still sorting out the finances and they'd email me by the end of last week. Still waiting..of course! Just the same story over and over again.

why on earth are you even bothering now? I mean despite all the obvious red flags you're still sending them e-mails about this instead of just walking away?
 
why on earth are you even bothering now? I mean despite all the obvious red flags you're still sending them e-mails about this instead of just walking away?

Obviously a good point and yes I agree. I don't have a job at the moment. Have applied to other places. Waiting to hear back. They aren't my ideal jobs though. This one is it....bar this messing around. I put a huge amount of time and effort to get it too as it seemed like my perfect job.
 
I would still get some irons in other fires and if they come up with something concrete in writing then you can assess it on its merit and that time.

I certainly wouldn't stop looking as another dream job may be missed.
 
Obviously a good point and yes I agree. I don't have a job at the moment. Have applied to other places. Waiting to hear back. They aren't my ideal jobs though. This one is it....bar this messing around. I put a huge amount of time and effort to get it too as it seemed like my perfect job.

Otherwise known as the sunk cost fallacy. Don't trap yourself - there are no perfect jobs!
 
Email out of the blue today from the owner. Just asking how I am. Told me things are progressing well and a lot of excitement, but still sorting out funding. So same old hot air :p.
 
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