Advice please related to recent job offer

Scotty123

Scotty123

Scotty123

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Hi guys (and girls).

I'd appreciate some thoughts into this.

First my background :-

Did a four year integrated masters in maths and physics, then a PhD in computational astrophysics. Been programming since 2008, C, C++, C#, OpenGL, CUDA, high performance stuff and more. Had two academic positions working with big companies and the defence industry since then (for over 30k). Followed by a seven month job for a startup in the US doing web development (Python). Ending salary there was over 50k but I appreciate the US pays more than the UK. This ended a few weeks ago.

Was contacted by a company here for a job, went along. Had a nice chat etc. It's using Python and I have the previous 8 months experience from that in the US startup.

They've offered me a junior position and £21k. They cite I have less than a year's direct experience. I feel like the past six years of my life have been ignored? :p Granted I don't have years and years of direct experience, but I think I've demonstrated proven ability and a good track record. Yes some of it is academic but still.

I'm not going to accept it. The advice of friends is it's insulting and undervaluing myself. I currently do some things from home and that makes me more money than I spend and I am in a very comfortable place financially so no urgency at all to find another job.

Your thoughts? Just after advice I guess. Do you think it's insulting given my experience? Am I underselling my self? Don't want to go into too much detail, no one likes a wall of text :D Thanks
 
They're right though you have less than a years actual industry experience and that's what a lot of places will focus on it doesn't matter how long you've spent bedroom coding or what you've done in academia when it comes to being able to work in the "real world".

Also they know they'll get another fresh out of uni grad who is more than happy with that as their first real job so unless you're superduper special and have something they really want they've got no need to offer any more.

I'll stop adding to this in a bit :D but there is also the fact that you've completed your PhD and got your doctorate I assume? In their mind they may be thinking why has someone taken all that time and money to achieve that only to take a starting grad position and what's stopping them from upping and leaving in 6 months to go for something more suited to a dr like a research position or something back in an academic field.
 
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I've been and done the research positions. I like the programming too much and that's where my interests lay :D.

I looked around at similar jobs where I live and there are junior positions requiring around year offering high 20s.

As I said I am in no rush at all to find another job. I was on my break in fact for a few months from the last job finishing to pursue a few personal ideas and projects. They contacted me via LinkedIn and I went along. We all got on great, like friends, and everything went perfectly interview/knowledge-wise.
 
I have to agree with Tom's points. You might be more than academically qualified, but when it comes to industry that's not always a golden ticket.

Admittedly 21k is very low in the software dev industry for starting position - was this only a small company? I remember IBM were advertising grad positions with starting salaries of 30k.
 
Small startups aren't exactly going to be throwing money at people, no matter how skilled.

Unfortunately, they can also get in any recent graduate for that price and still fill the role...

My advice is to take it, work their for a bit whilst keeping an eye out elsewhere, better to have a low paid (ish) job than to have gaps in the CV.
 
I have some jobs going from online, some freelancing and I'm fine with that at the moment. I'm enjoying them and it's building up my skills in some other areas I've wanted to learn. Makes more than my outgoings. I'm in no need at all technically to work so I can wait for what feels right and makes me happy. I was more interested in some other perspectives :).

I wasn't that much of a fan really of the Python web framework I was using during my previous startup so this also made the wage seem even more undesirable. .Net is much more appealing to me too and that would be my main choice if I were to do web development.
 
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Scotty123 said:
Makes more than my outgoings. I'm in no need at all technically to work so I can wait for what feels right and makes me happy. I was more interested in some other perspectives :).
Click to expand...

Whilst i appreciate you might not "need" a job if other things are funding your outgoings, any future potential employer is likely to shine a light at gaps in your employment history.

Which is absolutely fine if you're doing productive things - i.e. freelancing/research/volunteering etc, you can discuss those.
 
The only reason I'd consider it if I was in your position would be either:

-To build up actual employment history for the CV
-If there is potential with the startup for either personal progress or being part of building up the business into something bigger in the long term.
 
Did you ask about a salary increase if you could prove you weren't as inexperienced as they thought?

I've seen a few startups fail as they completely screw up by employing the wrong people so they can keep the salary low instead of just paying a bit more.
 
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Yeah they said 25k after six months.

It did seem like a great place to work honestly and it all seemed good.

The work I do from home at the moment is for a gaming studio startup remotely. The pay is actually less than the 21k currently but it's from home, in my own hours and programming games and graphics is a big passion of mine (my background comes in handy a lot here, lots of maths in gaming which is great for me), more so than web/mobile development. I was weighing it up against that and other things.
 
I think it's a little insulting.

May not be direct industry experience but that's much more easy to acquire than say a PhD in computational astrophysics.

Round where I live (Cambridge) is rife for programming positions for those with advanced academic qualifications. They don't necessary state industry experience as a requirement but if you have a MSc/PhD and have programming experience wages can be £30k-£50K.

£21k is a decent salary for perhaps a undergrad, but considering your background you should be able to fetch more.
 
That offer is absolutely insulting. Don't even entertain it!

Programming skills are easily transferable between languages/frameworks and if I'm reading it right you not only have a PhD but this would be your 3rd development job? Wait it out and find something for twice that if you don't need a job right away! Any half decent employer will accept that you were freelancing from home during the 'gap' in employment.
 
This would be my third yes, the last was more real world style (the start up and I learnt lots, previous was a postdoc with c++ and gpu programming). I spoke about a lot at the interview and it went perfect when we had it.

I have around 2.5 years work time after my PhD.

I agree they are easily transferable and you are not the first to say. I should add I have the 7/8 months required of the framework and language (Django and Python) for this job, from my last. I consider myself to know a lot of it as I built the whole site in scratch myself almost. I knew nothing when I started but spent many hours pouring over how to do things properly, business design patterns for code and more. Also it was only me there doing on the programming (two others joined but were fired quickly).
 
Two words, second is "off" unless:

- They are offering some non-dilutable stock as well - so if its a success you get a payout on IPO
- They are somewhere where living is going to be very cheap e.g. at least 3 hours away from London

21K was a good starting salary when I graduated ... in 1988 ..... and you have a masters and PhD.
 
They are leeds City centre. A thirty minute walk from me. Office with table tennis and a sofa for sleeping :p.

Honestly it all seemed perfect except the salary! Such agony at having to decline it.
 
21k for someone of your combined education and international experience is not just insulting, they added a slap in the face with their dirty underwear too. If you accept that you would be nuts, and even worse it's a start-up company so progression will be rubbish.

If I were you I would not only be looking for big multinational corporations in the UK, but also at jobs abroad again... especially places Switzerland. Your education could be your golden ticket there. If you have a chance to get out of the UK for a while while its still in the EU then do it.
 
I'm not a big company kind of person honestly. I have to stay in Leeds too due to my other half. As great as Switzerland would be, Leeds will have to do!
 
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