Advice sought, replacing a 20year Samsung 5.1 compact system

the_jetsetwilly

the_jetsetwilly

the_jetsetwilly

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The time has come to retire the trusty HT-DM150 Samsung. Must be at least 20years old now and needs a fan blowing on it in summer or the audio cuts out for a few seconds about 2/3 the way through the film and there are also some pops and squeaks as some dd/dts probably not meant for a system this old.

For a number of years I painted an entire wall with some black widow paint/internet formula(getting the right shade of grey was an excercise in itself, no it's not easier to choose the shade to use the more different patches you use of varying shades...) And use a projector to watch films and sometime large screen gaming.

Back on track, I'd like to replace my 5.1 with something that complements the room for audio.

If I post a "napkin" diagram/photos on here of the room and kind sole that's got some experience with cinema care to offer advice? ( And please ignore the car door in the living room thats a story for another day)

Cheers
 
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1. What advice are you looking for? :)

A new product? 2.1? 5.1? More? Separates?


2. Budget? Not that it’ll matter when hornetstinger replies ;)


3. Use case? Which content do you watch? From what device? What’s the source? Which TV? How are you connecting the video to the audio device?
 
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What's your budget?

As a starting point, you could just buy a new AV Receiver and Subwoofer (as your current one is a passive one, rather than the active ones needed by most Receivers).
You could reuse your existing speakers, as they are 6 Ohm which should be fine with most Receivers, but they use a proprietary connector which you'd need to cut off and ideally replace with banana plugs (or just leave as bare wire - depending on the receiver)
 
You could re-use those HT-DM150 for atmos height speakers, until you get something better. That's all they're really best for.

Do you want 5.1, or 7.1, dual subs, atmos, how many height channes do you want?
 
In order to offer any relevant advice for you, there are a list of things you need to think about, and from that another list of your requirements and lower/upper budget.

Stuff for you to think about: This further breaks down in to a "must have" and a "would like to have" list. The must haves are the essentials. These are the things you definitely won't compromise on unless absolutely necessary. Stuff such as size limits on speakers or insisting that it must be a minimum of a 5.1 system. Whatever it is that's important to you and your family. The "would like" list are the add-ons if budget allows, or that you might be prepared to stretch your budget for. An example would be Atmos. It's trending, but you're not really sure how it would affect the budget so you'd like to explore it as an option.
  • what are your sources - what you actually use and what you'd like to use given the opportunity - DVD / Blu-ray / UHD / Freeview / Freesat / Sky / Virgin / Streaming devices
  • speaker layout - stick with 5.1, go for 7.1, or add Atmos - do you want to keep options open to add some of this in the future?
  • size limits for equipment
    • look up some typical AV receiver sizes and remember to allow generously for ventilation - can you fit this in?
    • speakers: small satellites are cute but limited in performance unless you go higher-end. Larger bookshelf speakers are more likely to hit the sweet spot for price/performance, but you can't stuff them into room corners and expect them to sound good, so positioning has to be considered
  • new or used or a mix
    • speakers are generally a safe bet as a used buy, and if you're on a tight budget then this is a really useful area where you can make some hefty savings
    • AV receivers - if you want all the latest bells and whistles then you're going to have to go for brand new. It'll cost you more, but you're unlikely to find stellar deals on this years/last years must have AV receivers in the s/h market. There's just too much demand since prices went up a tone with Covid. However, unless you absolutely positively definitely must put some top-of-the-range 120Hz VRR low-latency gaming rig through the AV receiver, then there are ways and means to retain video performance without mortgaging your soul for the latest whizzy-bang receiver just to accommodate the needs of a single source that you might use less than 20% of the time. In this case a slightly older receiver might prove a better choice
    • subs - the size of the driver and the power of the amplification needs to match the size of your room. Any AV sub is going to put the Samsung sub in the shade. It'll play bass notes where the Samsung just banged and farted. There's a good chance you'll feel the bass rather than just hearing it. Get the size and power of the sub right and it will be impressive without shouting out its presence. Used is a great way to get a tonne of performance without spending the earth
  • to use an American term, are you remodelling? You have a system with wired speakers, but the wiring for those rears is kind of thin. That didn't matter so much with the Samsung satellite speakers. They lacked the resolution for it to make much of a difference. New speakers - good ones, like we'll recommend - are a different kettle of fish. Reusing the existing wiring just won't cut it, so you're going to need to run something a little beefier. Are you ready to do that?
  • Any other considerations? e.g. "we have young kids so sometimes I'll need to use headphones", or "I just got into vinyl, so music playback has become important", or "the wife absolutely hates/adores beech/rosewood/A N other finish"
  • Budget - This is a big one. A lot has changed in 10 years since you bought the Samsung, plus you're considering going significantly upscale from that sort of surround system, so what you spent on the Samsung is a small fraction of what you'll spend on a proper surround system because the newer gear will do far more and to a much much higher standard. Have you had a look at AV receiver and speaker package prices to get a feel for a likely and realistic budget?
 
Prices have gone up too, even from last gen, ie 3700 to 3800 Denon has gone up several hundred pounds.

You haven't mentioned a budget yet but I'd say looking at £1000 for a budget 5.1 system.

If you want Atmos, 7.1, dual sub then you'd be looking at higher price.
 
Thanks all for the interest:), I'll get the photos/plans done then that will help with things.
Budget was thinking it would be minimum of £1000 I'm just a casual user with ears ringing from too many years in datacentres before ear protection was a thing and about to head into my 50's. I'm assuming anything these days would be better than the current 20year all in1 old system which to be honest I'm happy with ( it did get top score all those years ago in some homehifi magazine in a budget comparison lol) FL and FR speakers sat on the floor currently. I do have a desire for in wall speakers but nothing further than they look fancy, especially as I'm happy with my currents that are sat on the floor :)
 
the_jetsetwilly said:
Thanks all for the interest:), I'll get the photos/plans done then that will help with things.
Budget was thinking it would be minimum of £1000 I'm just a casual user with ears ringing from too many years in datacentres before ear protection was a thing and about to head into my 50's. I'm assuming anything these days would be better than the current 20year all in1 old system which to be honest I'm happy with ( it did get top score all those years ago in some homehifi magazine in a budget comparison lol) FL and FR speakers sat on the floor currently. I do have a desire for in wall speakers but nothing further than they look fancy, especially as I'm happy with my currents that are sat on the floor :)
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Your Samsung might have been considered decent against similar player/amp + spkr kits, but even 20 years ago a separate AV receiver + 5.1 speaker package would have been noticably better.

The same sort of DVD-amp head unit and speaker kit is rare now. Sound bars have taken over most of that market and even eaten into a lot of the lower-end AV receiver market too. It hasn't helped that there has been a rapid succession of standards changes as new features have come out.

Ten years ago the biggest recent change was getting ARC for TV audio. Since then we have had 4K, Dolby Vision, 120Hz, VRR, eARC and Dolby Atmos.

The other big change has been the move away from physical media to streaming. In some ways that has shifted some of the burden of compatibility away from the receiver and on to the TV.

It's not uncommon now to find sources connected directly to the TV which then passes audio out via ARC or eARC to a sound system. Mostly this is in basic Dolby Digital (DD) or DDplus if Atmos compatibility is required.

It all sounds quite complicated when it's dumped in your lap this way, but it helps to understand that the best sound you'll get from streaming and TV broadcast be it Sky / Virgin / Freeview or Freesat is DD or DD+, and thats something an ARC or eARC connection can handle with ease. This means any AV receiver from the past 10 years roughly can deal with that sound.

Physical media in the form of Blu-ray and BD UHD still holds the high ground in terms of picture and sound quality. If you want to keep that sound quality then you can't just pipe the signal in via the TV and expect ARC or eARC to cope. ARC won't, it's that simple. It maxes out at DVD audio quality, and even then DTS isn't widely supported.

eARC will handle hi-res Dolby formats, but support for DTS is patchy depending on the TV brand.

A smarter solution is a player with dual HDMI outputs. One HDMI does both picture and sound as normal, but the other is audio only and it does all the high-res audio formats. Take a player like this and suddenly it doesn't matter if the receiver can pass Dolby Vision. The receiver isn't handling any picture elements; it's only handling sound via that 2nd HDMI out. The picture part of things goes straight to the TV. That solves the compatibility issue very neatly.

It's not all plain sailing though. Games consoles aren't quite so accommodating.

120Hz, VRR, HDR, ALLM; these are consoles latest enhancements to picture performance. You can route signal via the TV first, and that is the best solution if you wish to minimise the effects of picture lag, but sound might have to take a back seat in some cases. If the console outputs multichannel PCM for uncompressed surround sound then you will need eARC on both tge TV and receiver, and also to check that the eARC enabled TV passes multichannel okay. Dropping the sound level down to. DD solves all this, but DTS via ARC or eARC isn't as widely supported.

Don't worry about trying to remember all of this. Just tell us your plans for sources and we should be able to give you a simplified road map of how to get to the best destination.

Whatever happens though, even if your sound is at DD level, the better quality of sound from an AV receiver and good speaker package will blow your socks off.
 
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