AiO Water Cooling

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Hi I was planning to install AiO water cooling system in my PC, and one paticulare brand got my eye it was SilentiumPC Navis 240. So I was searching on google for reviews and all that but I need some feedback from actual users or someone who test it, and ask if it's any good, and is there maybe some better cooling solution that you suggest for the same price as Navis 240. Thanks!
 
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My guess it it's made by CoolIT, at least the pump looks like CoolIT pump.

A good air cooler in a case setup to flow cool air as needed to CPU and GPU coolers is more dependable, quieter and lasts many times longer than a CLC will.

In that case, If I get you correctly, you don't suggest me to buy that water cooler ?
 
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There are basically 3 kinds of water cooling; custom loop, AIO that are not CLC and AIO that are CLC. CLC is a sub-group of AIO coolers. CLCs are all factory sealed with no provision to service and repair. The only thing you change is their fans. Asetek has the US patent on the concept of pump on waterblock in sealed loop system, so any company selling CLCs with pump on waterblock has had Asetek make it for them or is paying royalties to Asetek to be allowed to make their CLC. They all have aluminum radiators, no fittings, no fill port and a pump with about the same rate of flow as a healthy adult can pee after a few pints (up to 40-63L/h) .. by comparison arguable the most popular custom loop pump the D5 flows up to 1500L/h. Enermax Liqtech TR4 pump is rated 450L/h, but Enermax has had serious problems with some owners having had 2 units replaced because of pump problems .. so not a good unit to be considering either.

AIOs that are not CLC are ones like Swiftech H series which they make and sell .. or ones made by Alphacool makes like their own Eisbaer, Fractal Design Celcius and be quiet! Silent Loop. I won't buy Alphacool brand because of reports by owners with defective product who were having serious problems with Alphacool getting problem resolved. Maybe they have got better, I don't know. I will buy Silent Loop because I know they have good customer support if I need it. Same with Fractal Design.

As for air cooling, a good air cooler in a system with case airflow setup to match CPU and GPU air cooler airflow needs will run cool and quiet with same loads as CLCs can cool .. and do it with virtually no potential problems or failures and generally at much lower prices. They only thing that can fail in an air cooled system is fans .. easily replaced at low cost if one ever does fail .. and system is usable even with a fan not working or any fan can be used until new fan is in hand. With a CLC if it fails it's almost always the pump and you have no cooling until a new cooler is installed, so no computer to use and have to buy a new cooler costing several times more than a fan .. and that is if you have a fan go bad. I haven't had a fan fail me in .. I can't remember the last time I had a fan go bad .. it's been at least 10 years and I have 5 systems running here and have built hundreds.

CLCs cooling low wattage will last several years, but I have followed up talking to users who overclock to high wattage / heat and their is a direct correlation of CLC cooing high wattage having much shorter life than ones in low wattage use. CLC users with extreme overclocks often have problems after 1.5-2 years of use .. and when they change to a top tier air cooler end up with same temps and lower noise levels.

Using CLC or air cooling is your choice. What I've posted is in the hopes you will learn and understand why many of us will not use CLCs .. and also how many who started out using CLC changed to air cooling and are amazed at how much quieter their systems are .. at same and often lower temps.

Thanks for the explanation. I appriciate it.

So If I get it correct SilentiumPC Navis have CLC type, and Silent loop and Fractal have Swiftech H series ? And you suggest me that if I'm every going to buy AiO to buy Fractal or Silent loop ?


If I may ask you when you said that you are building custom loops for many years. Is it correct that liquid inside bottle (talking about Ekoolant) if opened vaporize slowly or thats not true ? I have some people told me that and I don't trust them so I was wondering.
 
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I suggest not getting a CLC but an AIO like Swiftech H series, be quiet! Silent Loop series or Fractal Design Kelvin series, not that I said before. The Kelvin is copper radiator and made by Alphacool. I don't know who make Celcius for Fractal Design, but it hasaluminum radiator.

Ignore posts by peeps who doesn't seem to have a clue as to what AIO and CLC actually are .. just like most buyers out there don't know the differences.

There are all kinds of people out there who make statements with no knowledge to back them up, even some supposed experts. Good example is UK Gaming Computers article about open loop versus closed loop.
The real definition of open loop and closed loop are;
Open Loop = a liquid loop with that is not a sealed loop, one that is open to the air at it's highest point to keep liquid from leaking out.
Closed Loop = a liquid loop that is sealed with a plug or factory sealed so the liquid cannot leak out of it.​
The above is definition that has been around for more years than AIO, LCLC, CLC etc. But now we have CLC with many thinking it's means 'closed loop' and a custom loop somehow is an 'open loop' .. when the reality is both are closed loop cooling systems with LCLC / CLC being factory sealed with no way to add coolant or change components. I use the term CLC because it is what everyone is familiar with, even though it is incorrect.

Here is link to another writeup about CLCs that author also differentiates between AIO and CLC
https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-...y-you-should-probably-not-buy-clc-cooler.html

At the end of the day the real issue is 'water cooling' with a custom loop is a totally different and much higher tech cooling system then these cheap CLCs that cost the same or less than just a good pump with no reservoir or fittings cost .. Custom loop pumps all flow many times more coolant than CLCs do.

CLC mass sales are based on the idea that 'water cooling' is the key point. But their advertising glosses over things like pump flow rate and head .. so much so it is almost impossible to find any data showing the flow rate and heat of Asetek pumps or any of the other CLC pumps. They know their product is not much good and depend on advertising hype to suckker buyers in. They are more Carnie Barkers than anything else .. an the ill-informed flock into buy the because they say it's 'water cooling'.

If we stop and think for a minute here, how do you think a £80-100 CLC performance and longevity compares to the £500-1000 worth of components used in a good custom loop? Sure, there is probably a lot of markup in the components so price is probably much higher than it needs to be, but the pricing of CLCs is also artificially higher than need be.

I don't know if you remember, but when Corsair first came out with their H100 there were literally hundreds and hundreds of problems .. so many that for well over a year we had factory refurbished H100 cooler selling for about half their new price .. but with 90 day warranty until the government forced them to give a longer warranty. While not as many problems, we have seen similar releases where there were all lots of problems with 1st and sometimes 2nd and even 3rd release of these before they managed to get them working well enough to last a couple of years.

I advise not buying any product that does not have several reviews by credible review sites .. and also keep in mind review sites rarely talk down a product, because they depend on companies giving them samples to do their testing on, and then they usually sell on those samples to make a little money for the time they spend doing the review. If they put down a product the company will most likely not give them any more samples .. and no samples means they won't have anything to review .. so the obvious solution is to not put down a product in their reviews.

Thanks for the info.

I had a lot of problems with NZXT Kraken AiO almost every 2nd water cooling went dead after few months, I cross them instantly not to buy them ever.

I will get soon SilentiumPC AiO with RGB demo sample and test it, hopefully it's OK and maybe I will get one free of charge :D if I will thats better than FSP Windale 6 that I have right now. I mean one fan less in my case that means 1 less dust colletor and a lot of more space to have nice air flow inside, I have filters but I am trying to minimize fans inside of case, I already have 4 of them, 120 and 140mm. Windale 6 is huge, and it's hard to maneuver whatever you do inside of case.

P.S
Silent loop only got 3 year warranty thats very little.
 
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I think some of the problems CLC users have are their lack of knowledge about water cooling loops. Biggest are keeping pump lower than radiator inlet/outlet and running system before installing moving system around to work air out of pump and into radiator .. and if needed doing it again once installed to get air bubbles in the pump.

Demo samples are nice. That's what I use most of the time. :D

FSP Windale 6 is pretty good little cooler.

3 year warranty is not bad. I see many of the 5 year warranty CLCs failing in 1-2 years of high heat cooling use, even more before 3 years are up. Many of of these users don't even bother using their 5 year warranty because they don't want to deal with all the hassle involved to get warranty replacement .. which is what the companies' gamble on. :p Warranty does not mean product will last longer. They are like insurance companies who depend on many customers giving up on getting replacement because of the hassles involved. I got my Silent Loop 280mm in late June 2016 and it is working flawlessly. I did top up coolant after about 8 months and flushed system, opened up and looked at waterblock, and refilled with new coolant last spring. The copper micro-fins in waterblock had dulled in color a little but coolant was clear so no real issues. Maybe I should have changed coolant sooner. It's on i7 920 @ 4.3GHz so lots of heat there when CPU is working hard.

PS: Noticed your user name. Do you use many Tt products?
If you are interested, here's link to some of my tutorials & guides. Please drop me a PM.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...s-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data.html

Hah good little :D 6 heatpipes it's huge in my CM 690 Advanced X2 case :D

I vote for longer warranty always.
I know it doesn't mean that product will last longer of course but you know, you are safer if it dies under warranty, and you are not forced to spend money on new one, because you need your PC to be up and running.

I don't use anything from Tt products, I had Tt case few years back Xaser III, it was heavy as f.... :D 8kg empty, dope for some server stuff with that heavy steel doors and all that, but I didn't find any use from it, and sold it.
 
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To the OP> I have used a mixture of Aio's and air coolers over my past few builds. I also have the components for a proper custom water cooling setup but never ever got round to it for whatever reason. This includes Phanteks and XSPC Raystorm cpu blocks, about 2-3 EK rads, 2 Black ice rads, xspc rads, D5 pump, tubing and distilled water most of which have never been used.

For Air coolers the most recent experience is with the Noctua D15 and D14 although in the past I have used Thermalright. For aio's I have h115i pro, x62 and Ek predator 360.

As for air coolers go the D15 met my needs more than the other air coolers. While the D14 is similar it doesn't play nice with tall memory sticks. I am about to try and cram a D15 into an Inwin A1 when it arrives.

SO while the Noctua looks big and is heavy which it is it securing method is really good and as good as any I have used so far. It's performance pretty much speaks for itself you can google it and I am sure it will turn up many results. Up to a certain RPM it certainly pretty quiet although I got to warn you the fans colour seems to upset people personally it doesn't bother me. For the aio's I use a H115i most of the time although from time to time I switch it out for the EK predator. The x62 is a dead duck unfortunately after I used it with a 5960k. It wasn't that old either.

Between the H115i and x62 I prefer the H115i. And that was after ditching the nzxt fans straight away from out of the box to ML140 pros. But the thing I dislike most about the two is the software you have to use. I don't want to use nzxt or deffo not corsairs. Performance wise they are more or less the same although the pump noise seems to be a smidgen quieter on the Corsair unit. I don't know about the H115i but I do know an x62 cannot handle a 5960x;)

Which brings me to the EK predator... So many members around here are more than familiar with the EK predator or should I say it issues. Having said that mine has been faultless. Although there is more significant pump noise (maybe just because it older) and I am not a fan of the EK vardars. I prefer my ML pros or Noctua fans. So it certainly noisier than my h115i and compared in context to the D15 it way noisier.

But it the only cooler I have (not including the watercooling parts I have never used) which can beat the D15 and not by a tiny bit but by a bit.

Can you tell me why do you don't prefer Vardar fans?

I mean they have super air pressure and all that they are very good for radiators, I mean ML's are cool too I have them in my case 4, but I think Vardars got some more pressure than ML's.
 
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Questions:


1. Why is Corsair AiO so expensive ?

2. Difference between Fractal Design Kelvin vs S24 is what ? The only difference I saw is pipes and fittings, is that all ?

3. How many liters per hour does S24 have ? I saw somewhere that S36 have 40l/h, so does S24 have like 20 or something like that, and is that OK for 6700K, and some OC now and then ?
 
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4. What do you say about Alphacool Eisbaer LT240 it's a pretty nice AiO water cooling, anyone test it ? It has 70l/h flow rate, but only one or somewhere two year warranty, that's not much...
 
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... I will buy Silent Loop because I know they have good customer support if I need it. Same with Fractal Design.

But Fractal Design is AiO CLC, you said that
There are basically 3 kinds of water cooling; custom loop, AIO that are not CLC and AIO that are CLC. CLC is a sub-group of AIO coolers. CLCs are all factory sealed with no provision to service and repair. The only thing you change is their fans. Asetek has the US patent on the concept of pump on waterblock in sealed loop system, so any company selling CLCs with pump on waterblock has had Asetek make it for them or is paying royalties to Asetek to be allowed to make their CLC. They all have aluminum radiators, no fittings, no fill port and a pump with about the same rate of flow as a healthy adult can pee after a few pints (up to 40-63L/h) .. by comparison arguable the most popular custom loop pump the D5 flows up to 1500L/h. Enermax Liqtech TR4 pump is rated 450L/h, but Enermax has had serious problems with some owners having had 2 units replaced because of pump problems .. so not a good unit to be considering either.

AIOs that are not CLC are ones like Swiftech H series which they make and sell .. or ones made by Alphacool makes like their own Eisbaer, Fractal Design Celcius and be quiet! Silent Loop. I won't buy Alphacool brand because of reports by owners with defective product who were having serious problems with Alphacool getting problem resolved. Maybe they have got better, I don't know. I will buy Silent Loop because I know they have good customer support if I need it. Same with Fractal Design.

As for air cooling, a good air cooler in a system with case airflow setup to match CPU and GPU air cooler airflow needs will run cool and quiet with same loads as CLCs can cool .. and do it with virtually no potential problems or failures and generally at much lower prices. They only thing that can fail in an air cooled system is fans .. easily replaced at low cost if one ever does fail .. and system is usable even with a fan not working or any fan can be used until new fan is in hand. With a CLC if it fails it's almost always the pump and you have no cooling until a new cooler is installed, so no computer to use and have to buy a new cooler costing several times more than a fan .. and that is if you have a fan go bad. I haven't had a fan fail me in .. I can't remember the last time I had a fan go bad .. it's been at least 10 years and I have 5 systems running here and have built hundreds.

CLCs cooling low wattage will last several years, but I have followed up talking to users who overclock to high wattage / heat and their is a direct correlation of CLC cooing high wattage having much shorter life than ones in low wattage use. CLC users with extreme overclocks often have problems after 1.5-2 years of use .. and when they change to a top tier air cooler end up with same temps and lower noise levels.

Using CLC or air cooling is your choice. What I've posted is in the hopes you will learn and understand why many of us will not use CLCs .. and also how many who started out using CLC changed to air cooling and are amazed at how much quieter their systems are .. at same and often lower temps.


But Fractal Design is AiO CLC...
 
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While both are made by same company the be quiet! pump has some differences. Not sure how much those differences end up making, but little things that are visible like no swivel fittings being better than swivel fittings that can end up leaking is a good reason too.
I also prefer be quiet! with it's long history of great products and great customer support.

Ok, thats all good to know. But what about flow rate you think it's the same as on alphacool or ?
 
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Yes, I think flow rate is the same .. so should flow about 72 liter per hour. Not a lot of flow but significantly more than most CLCs do.

Thats the main reason why I got interested in Be Quiet.

OT:
I didn't have a chance to explore their water coolers but I had in my hands Silent Base 600 it's really dope.
 
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This friday I was testing Navis 240 on some Ryzen on my job, and pump got smoked up starts to smell funny. That's the first faulty among ten that I installed so far. Still not sure if I should buy be Quiet because of this thing on video up.

I am now watching fractal celsius S24, maybe he will be the right choice.
 
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We installed like 30 of them in the past half year at work, and never had any problem with S24 fractal Celsius.

Be quiet is not reachable to us at the moment, but even when they will be if we order them, they will cost much more than Celsius S24 and with only 3 year warranty vs 5 of fractals, and I read all the good experience (plus my own at work) from S24 Celsius, no one said anything bad or that they did a lot of RMAs on them.
 
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