Has anybody tried the environmentally "friendly" aircon top ups that use a R-134a compatible gas? Got a very slow leak which means a recharge every year which usually doesn't cost much (£20-25) but would rather leak a "friendly" coolant rather than 134a.
Aircon DIY top up
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You have to top up with the same gas as you have in your system already, as mixing different refrigerants can be very dangerous.
New type approved cars from 2011 and ALL new cars built after Jan 1st 2017 now use R1234yf which is a more enviro friendly refrigerant, although it is mildly flammable when R134a was not, so I guess swings and roundabouts, you save a bit of the planet but risk going up in flames if you get a leak now.
To change an existing vehicle system entirely to a more environmentally safe gas is hugely expensive as the compressor, pipework and condenser, and evap are all different as the system operates a different running pressure, also the fittings and connectors are different so service centers do not cross contaminate gasses by using wrong machines, finally R1234yf systems have an inline heat exchanger to make the system more efficient.
Finally and probably the most important part, it is actually illegal to top up, refill or regas a known leaking system. Companies and individuals who are proved to have knowingly leaked air con refrigerant (I.E topping up a system that you know leaks before having found and repaired that leak) could now face fines of up to £200,000.
New type approved cars from 2011 and ALL new cars built after Jan 1st 2017 now use R1234yf which is a more enviro friendly refrigerant, although it is mildly flammable when R134a was not, so I guess swings and roundabouts, you save a bit of the planet but risk going up in flames if you get a leak now.
To change an existing vehicle system entirely to a more environmentally safe gas is hugely expensive as the compressor, pipework and condenser, and evap are all different as the system operates a different running pressure, also the fittings and connectors are different so service centers do not cross contaminate gasses by using wrong machines, finally R1234yf systems have an inline heat exchanger to make the system more efficient.
Finally and probably the most important part, it is actually illegal to top up, refill or regas a known leaking system. Companies and individuals who are proved to have knowingly leaked air con refrigerant (I.E topping up a system that you know leaks before having found and repaired that leak) could now face fines of up to £200,000.
Try telling the garage we used for my wife's car.
We told them 4 times that we kNOW it has a leak. They decided to fill it anyway and add some dye so if it leaks again we will see if.
Oh.. I told them it's been dead for 4 years and It 100% has a leak as it's been refilled time and time again...
Mabey I should report him
Soldato
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How else would they find out where it's leaking from?
The UV dye will identify where the leak is.
You're supposed to fill with Nitrogen and a dye (coloured or UV) to be able to find a leak.
Soldato
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That does sound like a better solution.
Last time I had a leak it a normal re-gas + UV dye to trace it.
Last time I had a leak it a normal re-gas + UV dye to trace it.
From what my mechanic friend was telling me, the gas is much more expensive now. I think it's the law to not use refrigerant if you know there is a leak.
These AC machines are pretty clever now, they can detect a leak etc without the operator having to do much more than press a start button.
These AC machines are pretty clever now, they can detect a leak etc without the operator having to do much more than press a start button.
The systems do leak a small amount as standard though don’t they? I’ve had 2 cars with non working air con which I’ve had leak tested and regassed: both times the air con has stayed cold for the whole length of time I had the car.
Either way I’d never bother doing it myself, too much chance of getting it wrong and it’s hardly expensive to do properly in the first place.
Either way I’d never bother doing it myself, too much chance of getting it wrong and it’s hardly expensive to do properly in the first place.
Doesn't apply if the system is empty. On a different note R451A and R451B are already mixtures of 1234yf and 134a so what is the danger you are referring to?
Are you sure it is more flammable than petrol or gas?
All systems require toping up at some point and I am not sure how you can detect a very slow leak when the system passes all tests.
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There should be no leak in a system that's used regularly and free from any damage of the seals. I've never had to top up AC gas in any car. The only time I had to have it flushed and filled was when a leaking AC pump was identified, then replaced. That was 3 years ago.
Leave the AC on 24/7 and you should never have to think about it again if the components are in check.
Leave the AC on 24/7 and you should never have to think about it again if the components are in check.
For as long as the car is being used I mean, of course it won't be running when parked up, but not having AC on when the car is running will dry up the seals quickly from the engine heat. Like I said, I and others have never had to simply top up like this.
Agreed, I still have one of my old cars, a 2009 Fiesta 1.6 which doesn't get used much these days. It has climate control so the AC is always on and the climate just does its thing. It's still nice and cold and has never needed a topup in its entire lifetime. Likewise for my 2010 3 series that I recently got rid of - the AC was still ice cold right up to the day I got rid of it and it never needed any regassing in its lifetime because I just left AC on and let climate do its thing.
Soldato
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All car AC systems have small leaks over time, even if you leave the AC turned on over winter it doesn’t operate under 4-5c so for an extended period of time most systems will be off at some point.
I got my Golfs AC regassed after 9-10 years it still worked but I had noticed the system made the odd noise at idle. It only had 30-40% of it’s gas/oil left
The chap regassing it said it is not uncommon and you should get it regassed every 5 years he used the example you wouldn’t run your engine on the same oil for 10 years waiting for the pressure light to come on before changing it which is a fair point.
After the regas I noticed the AC was running the fan 1-2 bar lower for the given temperature and no more noises at idle
I got my Golfs AC regassed after 9-10 years it still worked but I had noticed the system made the odd noise at idle. It only had 30-40% of it’s gas/oil left
The chap regassing it said it is not uncommon and you should get it regassed every 5 years he used the example you wouldn’t run your engine on the same oil for 10 years waiting for the pressure light to come on before changing it which is a fair point.
After the regas I noticed the AC was running the fan 1-2 bar lower for the given temperature and no more noises at idle
Wish my Civic was the same. When I got it, it failed not long later with Honda replacing the relay with better part and that being fine. Then couple years ago it stopped working again and was intermittent. Last year I figured it was the air con clutch not working so I fixed that by re-shimming it, however it wasn't very cold so had it re-gassed too. In March it died again mid journey. Hoping it's the relay again, as there's no audible click however at 145k and lots of rural driving with huge potholes etc I'm not hopeful. If I took it to a garage it would be cost close to the value of the car making it pointless, hopefully I can fault find all the sensors etc and I'll try get the gas level checked with minimal/no charge.
Losing a few grams every year is normal. Having to recharge it completely every year is not. I had my car regassed a month or so ago (I had an AC specialist round to look at my gf's car's AC, and I thought it'd be a good idea while he was here). It was only down by about 20 grams, which I was impressed with since to my knowledge it's never been done in its 8-year lifetime.
You're playing a dangerous game with these top-up cans. You're never going to know exactly how much refrigerant the system contains, meaning you could quite easily cause damage to the system by under or over-charging it. Eventually, it'll leak out all of the lubricating oil and the compressor will die. Do the top-up cans even inject any oil? This will end up being considerably more expensive than just getting the leak found and fixed.
The vacuum test done when a system is "properly" regassed will only identify major leaks.
You're playing a dangerous game with these top-up cans. You're never going to know exactly how much refrigerant the system contains, meaning you could quite easily cause damage to the system by under or over-charging it. Eventually, it'll leak out all of the lubricating oil and the compressor will die. Do the top-up cans even inject any oil? This will end up being considerably more expensive than just getting the leak found and fixed.
The vacuum test done when a system is "properly" regassed will only identify major leaks.