AKG 712 vs DT 1990

gearsplayer · 21 Sep 2021 at 14:40

Hey I'm looking for a good pair of headphones for competitive + casual gaming. I generally listen to rock music.

I know for competitive you want little to no bass but I'm ok with it as I want an all rounder which is why I'm leaning towards these headphones.

I already have the ifi zen dac but I'll buy the zen can if needed.

Thanks,

EsaT · 21 Sep 2021 at 21:46

AKG has in general one of the widest sound stages and while not up K702 extreme level, K712 is still very good.
Beyer is notch behind... Or DT990
DT1990 goes another step smaller in sound stage, though positioning is excellent and details have "in your face" clarity.
Amiron Home kinda like between DT990 and DT1990.
(and little more extra "fun factor" on that Tesla driver's impressive bass over DT1990)

Though anyway if you feed them speaker stereo sound, all sounds will be positioned very accurately and very artificially inside your left or right ear, or inside head.
That's because no headphones can ever create binaural cues needed by brain to position sounds:
Shape of the head causes direction dependant changes to signal received by both ears from sound source.
And if those cues don't exist in signal either from binaural recording, or from mathematical simulating, you won't get any good sound positioning.

Then considering you would likey be wearing them for long durations comfort would be another important factor.

AKG is quite light, but relies also on headband's pressure to keep cups positioned.
That "automatically" adjusting head band simply isn't that good for different head sizes and shapes.
On smaller, especially downward narowing head cups would easily feel like they're creeping down.
And elastic strings in headband also wear and loosen over time.
Good old manually adjustable headband is more "flexible" for different size heads.

Though as studio use aimed and above average weight headphone DT1990 has quite hefty headband pressure to make sure it stays in place when turning head.
Beyer specs it as 6.6 Newtons.
While DT990 Edition is specced for 2.8 N making it extremely comfortable. (Amiron Home propably similar)
So DT1990 would take some practise and likely also bending of mid part of headband. (steel inside cushion)

gearsplayer · 21 Sep 2021 at 23:09

EsaT said:
AKG has in general one of the widest sound stages and while not up K702 extreme level, K712 is still very good.
Beyer is notch behind... Or DT990
DT1990 goes another step smaller in sound stage, though positioning is excellent and details have "in your face" clarity.
Amiron Home kinda like between DT990 and DT1990.
(and little more extra "fun factor" on that Tesla driver's impressive bass over DT1990)

Though anyway if you feed them speaker stereo sound, all sounds will be positioned very accurately and very artificially inside your left or right ear, or inside head.
That's because no headphones can ever create binaural cues needed by brain to position sounds:
Shape of the head causes direction dependant changes to signal received by both ears from sound source.
And if those cues don't exist in signal either from binaural recording, or from mathematical simulating, you won't get any good sound positioning.

Then considering you would likey be wearing them for long durations comfort would be another important factor.

AKG is quite light, but relies also on headband's pressure to keep cups positioned.
That "automatically" adjusting head band simply isn't that good for different head sizes and shapes.
On smaller, especially downward narowing head cups would easily feel like they're creeping down.
And elastic strings in headband also wear and loosen over time.
Good old manually adjustable headband is more "flexible" for different size heads.

Though as studio use aimed and above average weight headphone DT1990 has quite hefty headband pressure to make sure it stays in place when turning head.
Beyer specs it as 6.6 Newtons.
While DT990 Edition is specced for 2.8 N making it extremely comfortable. (Amiron Home propably similar)
So DT1990 would take some practise and likely also bending of mid part of headband. (steel inside cushion)

Thanks for the detailed reply. If you had to pick one headphone out of the ones you've suggested for the best all rounder that maybe leans towards competitive gaming which would it be? The way you described the 712 and dt 1990 matches what I've read online.

As for a dacamp, will the zen dac ifi be more than enough? Sometimes I feel like audiophiles exaggerate how much power headphones actually need.

Guest2 · 22 Sep 2021 at 13:12

If it’s any help, I went from AKG 702 to Beyerdynamic DT1770 (closed version of the 1990)
Listen to rock, metal, house, techno and other music and play Warzone primarily.

AKGs were open and had a much wider soundstage but the 1770s being closed are still quite wide and no longer get outside sounds. Positioning is great, bass and sub bass is so much better, easier to drive (despite ohm ratings) and comfier.

gearsplayer · 22 Sep 2021 at 17:04

Another headphone I've been looking into is the sundara @EsaT do you have any experience with this headphone?

EsaT · 22 Sep 2021 at 21:03

Don't have experience of Sundara.
But basing on Mad Lust Envy's reviews of multiple planars including Hifimans, soundstage for binaural sound gaming is likely around Tesla driver (Amiron/DT1990) Beyers.

Though there's one aspect to consider for gaming use.
Having very thick "less than well" breathing pads it basically warms ears as much as closed headphones.
That breathability, or lack of it is quite bad:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/hifiman/sundara-2020
Doubt that it would be comfortable for many hours long sessions unless in really cool room.

But at the same time its mesh back lets noise through lot better than typical open headphone and basically every slightest noise is free to go to either direction.
Meaning if you have mechanical keyboard, you're going to hear absolutely everything unless drowned by listening volume.
Typical open headphone starts muffling noises few dBs in upper mids around 1½ kHz and then increasing to 10 dBs in treble frequencies giving some "smoothing".

So it's kinda like the worst of the closed design combined to the worst of the open design...

stooeh · 23 Sep 2021 at 09:38

I found the isolation provided by the closed DT 770s very useful in a noisy room/office and basically no leakage. Bit clampy though. One of the drivers on it stopped working on it last week though - had since 2012

I prefer the sound of open headphones myself so I picked up the Sundaras. The treble sounded very overpowering at first but sound a lot better now after a few days of getting used to them and thankfully comfort was not an issue - tested for majority of a 12hr shift but I do miss the isolation of closed though.

As for gaming I don't feel like any headphones from HD595s, DT770s Sundaras give me an edge over the others, probably just need something decent.

Guest2 · 23 Sep 2021 at 10:42

stooeh said:
I found the isolation provided by the closed DT 770s very useful in a noisy room/office and basically no leakage. Bit clampy though. One of the drivers on it stopped working on it last week though - had since 2012

I prefer the sound of open headphones myself so I picked up the Sundaras. The treble sounded very overpowering at first but sound a lot better now after a few days of getting used to them and thankfully comfort was not an issue - tested for majority of a 12hr shift but I do miss the isolation of closed though.

As for gaming I don't feel like any headphones from HD595s, DT770s Sundaras give me an edge over the others, probably just need something decent.

Did you not consider DT1770 if you liked the 770?

I really hate clamp headphones and the 1770 are fine.
The AKG702s had a wider soundstage but being open i could hear other noises. Closed not as wide but get sound isolation so suppose it’s a trade off.
The bass on the 1770 is so much better (it exists)
Using Dolby Atmos with them is fantastic. Feeling bass from explosions in your stomach certainly was a wow point when I first tried the 1770s on slightly too high volume.
I used the volume that was set on the 702s and it was way too loud

stooeh · 23 Sep 2021 at 11:29

Guest2 said:
Did you not consider DT1770 if you liked the 770?

I really hate clamp headphones and the 1770 are fine.
The AKG702s had a wider soundstage but being open i could hear other noises. Closed not as wide but get sound isolation so suppose it’s a trade off.
The bass on the 1770 is so much better (it exists)
Using Dolby Atmos with them is fantastic. Feeling bass from explosions in your stomach certainly was a wow point when I first tried the 1770s on slightly too high volume.
I used the volume that was set on the 702s and it was way too loud

I did consider them but I do prefer the sound of open like my HD595s and I wanted to try a different brand such as AKG, Hifiman or Audio technica. The closed beyers have definitely been great during covid/wfh though. I may open them up and see if there is any obvious solder problems