AKG K612 Pro vs K702

Associate
Joined
27 Nov 2020
Posts
5
Hi. So I just returned my DT990s and I was reading this list for a replacement: https://crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/

The headphones graded above the DT990s (B) within my price range are:

AKG K612 Pro (B+)
AKG K702 (B+)

I've read differing views on what's better. This lists grades the K612 Pro better in its tone while saying it's just as good technically. However, the K702s seem to be way more popular, with the Amazon reviews averaging at 4.5 stars with over 2k reviews as opposed to the K612 Pro's average of 4 stars with only 280 reviews.

I listen to alternative rock, play video games (will be wearing headphones at all times playing Cyberpunk), and watch movies/tv shows but not a lot of action stuff. I really want immersion and not a lot of sibilance (that's why I returned my DT990s). I heard the K702s are more "shouty" (what does that mean?) and have more treble (which is something that scares me after the Beyers).

P.S. They're around the same price.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2008
Posts
11,353
Location
Finland
Welcome aboard.

K702 are very neutral (=accurate) aiming in their sound and if purpose is to have best possible details like foot steps binaural cues they're at top level.
But if you want balanced gaming experience their neutral bass doesn't give much "fun factor".
Especially compared to DT990. (own both K702 and DT990)
Same applies for movies.

K612 should have little more bass, but have no experience of them.
(and who knows if they have remained identical over the years, which applies to any headphone)

Dropping 8kHz band 4-5dBs in equalizer would have helped lot to Beyer's treble.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Nov 2020
Posts
5
Welcome aboard.

K702 are very neutral (=accurate) aiming in their sound and if purpose is to have best possible details like foot steps binaural cues they're at top level.
But if you want balanced gaming experience their neutral bass doesn't give much "fun factor".
Especially compared to DT990. (own both K702 and DT990)
Same applies for movies.

K612 should have little more bass, but have no experience of them.
(and who knows if they have remained identical over the years, which applies to any headphone)

Dropping 8kHz band 4-5dBs in equalizer would have helped lot to Beyer's treble.

Thanks for the answer. I heard the K612s are more fun, lush, and bassy. The DT990s were very detailed, but there was something about the bass that was lacking. It had too much of a twang that I think goes beyond the treble, and I can't equalise anything when I connect my headphones to a ps4/ps5 controller.

I don't play many FPSs, so hearing sounds like footsteps are not my concern. I mostly play single player video games that focus on story, and a review from such a gamer confirmed that the DT990s didn't do the trick in this department: https://youtu.be/Q2uFOoGk54E Although, he recommends the ATH M50X, and he implies closed back is more immersive, so take his opinion a little lightly.

This also links to an style and reputational concern. I hate Fortnite, and these were gamer Ninja's main choice of phones. As such, they've come to represent a certain scene in a way, and I'd say his usage of them has boosted their popularity.

I had the 250ohms version, but I only have an amp with 150ohms. I can use this amp with these AKGs, and they're also cheaper. One day I may consider the DT880s, but the AKGs I listed are both graded higher than any of the DT series in that list.

I think higher treble and wider soundstage is better for shooting games, action movies classical music, jazz, acoustic, etc. However, those things aren't my jam. I'm under the impression a bassier and warmer sound will benefit stuff like alt rock, electronic, story focused games, and maybe the occasional HBO drama TV episode...?

P.S. Here are a couple of more phones with the same B grade: AKG K371 (what's the point but I'll put it here anyway) and Shure Srh440-E (very cheap and Shure are great).
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2008
Posts
11,353
Location
Finland
ATH-M50X is really bass heavy and with major amount lopsided frequency response.
And it would certainly do badly with PS5's "3D audio". (marketing just keeps inventing other names for binaural sound)
Because that closed design just "not having room for anything else" than bass with such frequency response.
Don't know quality of PS5's HRTF/binaural sound simulation, but besides directionality good headphones also give feel of distances.
(assuming listener's head shape is close enough to average, because head shape affects to binaural cues brain has learned to decode)
ATH-M50x would certainly be heavily toward head in bucket/cupboard immersion with that major amount lopsided frequency response.

So if someone recommends it for gaming you know he has very skewed more bass-nothing else preference and isn't credible.
Actually even lots of "audiophiles" prefer inaccurate sound.
Human hearing just isn't any accurate neutral measuring instrument and without real "live" sound as instant comparison point it doesn't know/remember what's accurate.
And further stereo sound like usual music really doesn't give a damn about accuracy of reproduction to sound good.
Binaural cues are only thing our brain has evolved to analyze accurately.


For gaming DT990 is actually well balanced between above neutral bass and rest.
(DT880 actually has weaker bass so just forget it)
Because of physics open design just can't do well that lowest "rumbling" bass, if that's what you're after.
That lowest bass is the strength of closed design, which is harder for getting balanced sound beyond that.
(very hard to have good but about neutral bass and rest balanced)

Beyer's closed DT770 would give that closed design's strong bass, but without single sided frequency response.
I don't own it and have tested it only in shop.
But having used exclusively open headphones for 15 years and trying Amiron Home before it, DT770 certainly sounded impressive for gaming recordings.

AKG K550 would be another closed headphone I would try.
Though those leather pads wouldn't breath even remotely as much as velours increasing risk of ears sweating.


Also impedance tells only small part about how demanding headphones are for output.
It tells literally only how much driver resists AC current and is power taken in current or voltage.
It's that electric power per dB which really defines how demanding load headphones are.
And even lowish impedance headphones can need lots of power.
For example some earlier Hifiman's needed almost as much power as some speakers despite of lowish impedance in headphone scale.

And while needing less signal voltage than 250 ohm Beyers, open AKGs actually need more power translating to quite high current draw.
Though closed K550 is lot more "sensitive"/efficient in power usage.

Passive filter would have been one way to tone down DT990's treble with any (low output impedance) source.
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/passive-filters/
 
Associate
Joined
5 Apr 2014
Posts
2,171
Location
Pompey
The K612 are not more lush they’re quite linear with some harsh peaks, roughness, treble is zingy. If you want something fun you’re looking at the wrong headphones, maybe go for a 5XX or Sundara? I got my 5XX from mass drop for £170, arrived quickly.

the K612 with some tissue stuffed in the cups can sound quite good but it isn’t bassy nor particularly fun. The DT990 is way more fun than the K612 or K701. I use the K701 for gaming they just respond to DSP so well. I also own the DT990 premium 600ohm, they sound smoother in the treble than the Pro variants I’ve tried, much better headphone than the AKG models in my opinion, really been enjoying them.

The K701’s(702)driver is more resolving than the K612, not by much, the K612 loses out on a hair more resolution for a better FR. both have that gritty timbre, more gritty than the DT990, the 990 has some large peaks but a gritty sound can really affect the timbre of instruments, some people call the AKGs plasticky, I see their point.

the M50X is really sealed, intimate headphone. For gaming it was too on your face for me, the DT770 was better and the beyer drivers image so well where as the M50X is quite fuzzy sounding. Cyberpunk is looking amazing, I can’t think of anything better than sitting down, console/PC, OLED or VA screen, good pair of phones, if I had to visualise, for sure this is 5XX type game, bass is textured, extended, good imaging, good depth. The K702 is more, competitive gamer friendly, it has more linear bass, maybe a bit south of the mids by a hair and a bright, airy upper end so your footsteps tend to show up more hyper focused. I’ll personally be rocking the 990 premiums for that game, comfort, fun, good focus.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Nov 2020
Posts
5
The K612 are not more lush they’re quite linear with some harsh peaks, roughness, treble is zingy. If you want something fun you’re looking at the wrong headphones, maybe go for a 5XX or Sundara? I got my 5XX from mass drop for £170, arrived quickly.

the K612 with some tissue stuffed in the cups can sound quite good but it isn’t bassy nor particularly fun. The DT990 is way more fun than the K612 or K701. I use the K701 for gaming they just respond to DSP so well. I also own the DT990 premium 600ohm, they sound smoother in the treble than the Pro variants I’ve tried, much better headphone than the AKG models in my opinion, really been enjoying them.

The K701’s(702)driver is more resolving than the K612, not by much, the K612 loses out on a hair more resolution for a better FR. both have that gritty timbre, more gritty than the DT990, the 990 has some large peaks but a gritty sound can really affect the timbre of instruments, some people call the AKGs plasticky, I see their point.

the M50X is really sealed, intimate headphone. For gaming it was too on your face for me, the DT770 was better and the beyer drivers image so well where as the M50X is quite fuzzy sounding. Cyberpunk is looking amazing, I can’t think of anything better than sitting down, console/PC, OLED or VA screen, good pair of phones, if I had to visualise, for sure this is 5XX type game, bass is textured, extended, good imaging, good depth. The K702 is more, competitive gamer friendly, it has more linear bass, maybe a bit south of the mids by a hair and a bright, airy upper end so your footsteps tend to show up more hyper focused. I’ll personally be rocking the 990 premiums for that game, comfort, fun, good focus.

5XX and Sundara are too rich for my blood. I've ordered the K612 Pros at barely a quarter of the price of either of those.

Again, I've heard differing opinions. A music maker said they are more lush than the K702s. I can imagine them having a bit more of that quality of sound associated with my kinda music E.G., dream pop and trip hop, genres that don't emphasise much treble unless you wanna focus on the record scratching and vocals. As such, the grittiness will be ideal imo (especially for those electronic genres), but I'll let you know once I try them out. I actually bought the DT990s based on a comment I saw on this website saying they were good for electronic music, although all I could focus on listening to 'Teardrop' (Massive Attack) was that record scratching sorta sound that's heard throughout the song.

I couldn't stand the treble on the DT990s but maybe I should have stuffed some tissue behind the cups of DT990s. Ultimately, though, I would have returned them either way due to my repugnance towards Youtuber gamers. I personally don't want to wear the headphones Ninja and KSI uses because it'll make me have associations to thst scene of gaming I'm not involved in and dislike.

That Crinacle ranking has got to give for something. An A+ in one category and a B in another. It's the #24th highest ranked headphone.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2008
Posts
11,353
Location
Finland
Again, I've heard differing opinions. A music maker said they are more lush than the K702s.

Ultimately, though, I would have returned them either way due to my repugnance towards Youtuber gamers. I personally don't want to wear the headphones Ninja and KSI uses because it'll make me have associations to thst scene of gaming I'm not involved in and dislike.
K612 should be less "detail whoring" and smoother than K702.
And while not really bassy, it should be little more fun for gaming than K702.

Also to avoid being hypocrite make sure to ditch any products of Asus, whose gaming hype is everywhere.
DT990 is actually over 30 years old headphone model and its design has nothing to do with any fashion and even less with any Youtube or even whole internet.
Its sound just happens to be in good balance between details and bass immersion for gaming.
 
Associate
Joined
5 Apr 2014
Posts
2,171
Location
Pompey
5XX and Sundara are too rich for my blood. I've ordered the K612 Pros at barely a quarter of the price of either of those.

Again, I've heard differing opinions. A music maker said they are more lush than the K702s. I can imagine them having a bit more of that quality of sound associated with my kinda music E.G., dream pop and trip hop, genres that don't emphasise much treble unless you wanna focus on the record scratching and vocals. As such, the grittiness will be ideal imo (especially for those electronic genres), but I'll let you know once I try them out. I actually bought the DT990s based on a comment I saw on this website saying they were good for electronic music, although all I could focus on listening to 'Teardrop' (Massive Attack) was that record scratching sorta sound that's heard throughout the song.

I couldn't stand the treble on the DT990s but maybe I should have stuffed some tissue behind the cups of DT990s. Ultimately, though, I would have returned them either way due to my repugnance towards Youtuber gamers. I personally don't want to wear the headphones Ninja and KSI uses because it'll make me have associations to thst scene of gaming I'm not involved in and dislike.

That Crinacle ranking has got to give for something. An A+ in one category and a B in another. It's the #24th highest ranked headphone.
Lushness tends to mean things sound a bit, cozy, fuzzy, a sound you generally get from planar magnetics that tend to have an almost dirty background, not as clean as good dynamics. Some headphones with elevated mid bass and darker treble can sound lush, something neither the K701 and K612 have. The DT990 if anything, sound warmer, less rough than both of those headphones because it has a balance of mid bass where as the K612 and K701 both have a more top heavy sound.

You're the first person I've ever seen associate the DT990 with streamers? I'm aware of who Ninja is but the DT990 are old school, hard mans German headphone, olds school studio/pro headphone, pretty sure used in field work at least older designs were, based on a lot of military grade equipment, long linage and history. Known for durability, toughness, quality control and reliability. Ninja probably uses them because he read up about popular headphones. I haven't heard the Pros in a long time, my memory of them is harshness but then I didn't break the pads in. I own the DT990 Premium 600ohm and the pads wear in nicely and they're bright but tasteful, energetic, vast etc.

Problem with ratings, A grade, B etc is they don't tell us much. For example if I were to rank say the HD800S(£1400) and HE-5XX(£170) I'd rate the 5XX a grade A while the HD800 would overall score a C because the HD800S is unlistenable with is mushy bass, harsh and gritty treble whereas the HE-5XX is aggressive but smoother, more musical, more naturally spacious. Grading is personal preference to that person, I don't know who Crinicle is so can't comment on his ears but there's about 3 reviewers I trust these days and they don't use youtube.



index.php


These measurements seem consistent with a lot of K612 measurements I've seen. The 2K rise is very noticeable, it gives them a gritty, hard tone, you know when you listen to a headphone and you can't relax, the texture if off, voices sound odd, metallic. 6K similar to the HD800 but smaller peak, makes the timbre sizzly, not smooth and coherent. I don't want you to think I'm bashing them, I like the K612 it's value is insane, but you complained about the 990 for being harsh, this headphone is harsh in more areas than the DT990.


akg-702_fre7f9.jpg


K702 tells a similar story you get your 2K crunch, ergh, but you get a bit of a recession, this gives you your soundstage perception, at least about 85% of it, 6k is fine but rises soon after, a peak at 8k in my opinion is better than a peak at 6k and a peak at 5k is desirable over both in my opinion. K702 has a bit more air up top. K612 has a bit better FR in my opinion overall, it's more linear despite being more notably rougher due to 2k and 6k and the little tizzy peaks here and there. K702 is more resolving, more spacious sounding.

There's no lush tilt, which would leave it up to the timbre, background but open dynamics don't do that, I've owned a few pairs and have a pair here, measurements don't tell the whole story but if on the same rig, it's valuable.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Nov 2020
Posts
5
K612 should be less "detail whoring" and smoother than K702.
And while not really bassy, it should be little more fun for gaming than K702.

Also to avoid being hypocrite make sure to ditch any products of Asus, whose gaming hype is everywhere.
DT990 is actually over 30 years old headphone model and its design has nothing to do with any fashion and even less with any Youtube or even whole internet.
Its sound just happens to be in good balance between details and bass immersion for gaming.

It says on this website that the DT990s released in 2004: https://www.soundguys.com/beyerdynamic-dt-990-pro-review-15223/ unless you're referring to the brand.

Just for you, I won't touch Asus. Also, something that was made to have a certain image can be reshaped by society. It's happened countless times.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Nov 2020
Posts
5
Lushness tends to mean things sound a bit, cozy, fuzzy, a sound you generally get from planar magnetics that tend to have an almost dirty background, not as clean as good dynamics. Some headphones with elevated mid bass and darker treble can sound lush, something neither the K701 and K612 have. The DT990 if anything, sound warmer, less rough than both of those headphones because it has a balance of mid bass where as the K612 and K701 both have a more top heavy sound.

You're the first person I've ever seen associate the DT990 with streamers? I'm aware of who Ninja is but the DT990 are old school, hard mans German headphone, olds school studio/pro headphone, pretty sure used in field work at least older designs were, based on a lot of military grade equipment, long linage and history. Known for durability, toughness, quality control and reliability. Ninja probably uses them because he read up about popular headphones. I haven't heard the Pros in a long time, my memory of them is harshness but then I didn't break the pads in. I own the DT990 Premium 600ohm and the pads wear in nicely and they're bright but tasteful, energetic, vast etc.

Problem with ratings, A grade, B etc is they don't tell us much. For example if I were to rank say the HD800S(£1400) and HE-5XX(£170) I'd rate the 5XX a grade A while the HD800 would overall score a C because the HD800S is unlistenable with is mushy bass, harsh and gritty treble whereas the HE-5XX is aggressive but smoother, more musical, more naturally spacious. Grading is personal preference to that person, I don't know who Crinicle is so can't comment on his ears but there's about 3 reviewers I trust these days and they don't use youtube.



index.php


These measurements seem consistent with a lot of K612 measurements I've seen. The 2K rise is very noticeable, it gives them a gritty, hard tone, you know when you listen to a headphone and you can't relax, the texture if off, voices sound odd, metallic. 6K similar to the HD800 but smaller peak, makes the timbre sizzly, not smooth and coherent. I don't want you to think I'm bashing them, I like the K612 it's value is insane, but you complained about the 990 for being harsh, this headphone is harsh in more areas than the DT990.


akg-702_fre7f9.jpg


K702 tells a similar story you get your 2K crunch, ergh, but you get a bit of a recession, this gives you your soundstage perception, at least about 85% of it, 6k is fine but rises soon after, a peak at 8k in my opinion is better than a peak at 6k and a peak at 5k is desirable over both in my opinion. K702 has a bit more air up top. K612 has a bit better FR in my opinion overall, it's more linear despite being more notably rougher due to 2k and 6k and the little tizzy peaks here and there. K702 is more resolving, more spacious sounding.

There's no lush tilt, which would leave it up to the timbre, background but open dynamics don't do that, I've owned a few pairs and have a pair here, measurements don't tell the whole story but if on the same rig, it's valuable.

Definitely amazing detail, comfort, soundstage, and fun factor, but the treble still was too much. I loved hearing every instrument in its own places, but a song with cymbals would have the cymbals dominate. Again, I can't equalise any of that out when plugging into a controller.

My first semi-decent headphones were the Grado SR60s with a bass mod. They were my favourites until they broke. So as you can gather, I like bright headphones, but something about the DTs didn't sound like something I was comfortable with...

The consensus is that most people know the DT990s through two of some of the biggest streamers, KSI and Ninja. If you search up reviews, it'll be advertised as "Ninja's headphones". I agree they probably found out about these because Beyerdynamics are a great company, but the surge in popularity for the DT990s still stands beyond its quality.

I put much more stock into non-Youtube reviews. That's why I bought the DT990s on a whim based on a comment from Overclockers and only found out about who used these headphones afterwards.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Jul 2012
Posts
6,529
Location
Ankh Morpork
It says on this website that the DT990s released in 2004: https://www.soundguys.com/beyerdynamic-dt-990-pro-review-15223/ unless you're referring to the brand.

Just for you, I won't touch Asus. Also, something that was made to have a certain image can be reshaped by society. It's happened countless times.

The Beyerdynamic history says different - the DT880 arrived in 1980 and the DT770 and DT990 first went on sale five years later
 
Associate
Joined
5 Apr 2014
Posts
2,171
Location
Pompey
^^^^ This

Their drivers also behave like older drivers from the 80's, higher volumes can cause unevenness in the low bass, cause some behaviour that a lot of people used to modern headphones will find weird and almost faulty but it's part of their charm. That's cool I guess, despite being quite an old school headphone user(Don't consider myself too old but my taste in drivers, sound etc) It's a good thing that streamers are highlighting headphones like the DT990 as it will encourage many to not waste money on crappy SteelSeries, Razer headphones and pick something more prestigious, reputable and most important of all, good sounding. In my 20's I wasn't really a Beyer fan at all apart from the 770, more recently I appreciate them a lot more than I used to, at least the 600ohm variants, maybe my ears are finally becoming manly.

It's surprising to see a high profile gamer like Ninja only just discover them, curious how he came to getting them, prob just googled the best soundstage type headphones or positioning which Beyer are known for, some people thought I was mad when I said once that the DT770 can pin point enemies on a map with more precision than the HD800, obviously the 800 is far more resolving, microscopically detailed, nuanced but it's also extremely messed up in the timbre, lean, uncomfortable.
 
Top Bottom