All in one

staxvolt

staxvolt

staxvolt

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Joined
8 Apr 2022
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8
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england
I have acquired an all in one turntable which has phono output.
Manual says speakers can be coonected using the phono.
Would this disable the built in speakers so audio is only from the new ones.
Could the existing volume control be used or do I need speakers with their own controls.
 
For turntables with a phono (RCA) output the signal level is usually fixed. That means any powered speakers or amplifiers receiving that signal will have their own volume control.

Presuming that thgģe designers of your record player have at least half a clue about what they're doing, then they should have the phono signal out as independent from the built-in speaker level. That way the internal speaker can be turned down without affecting the way the deck works with external speakers.
 
Lucid, I understand this means I need speakers with their own volume control.
And turn down existing control to zero.
Manual states speakers can be fitted but nothing more.
 
From what you've described so far it sounds like you need a pair of active speakers. This means speakers with an amplifier built in, so one or both of them has a power cable that plugs in to a mains socket to run an internal amplifier. Overclockers sells such speakers.

Look in the peripherals section of the shop. You'll find a brand by the name of Edifier. I would suggest something along the lines of the Edifier R1100 (£89/pair) because this one includes a remote control as a convenience feature, but the brand has speakers from £49 up to £300, so there's something to cover most budgets and applications. You'll also need to buy a connection cable of appropriate length to suit how you'd like to arrange the record player and speakers. These cables are not expensive; £5 will cover it for a counter top setup, and £10 if you need a longer lead than a couple of metres length.

I understand where @hornetstinger 's comment about wrecking records comes from. For as long as I can remember as a vinyl user for over 40 year there have always been basic turntables and better quality ones.

Those budget decks were often fitted with a cartridge known as a ceramic. The record stylus (needle) on these is made from a relatively soft material compared to better quality diamond stylii. It might be ruby but it's not important. The point is that a diamond can last up to 1000 playing hours where as the softer stone can wear out in 100-200 hours. A worn stylus turns into a bit of a plough. There were a lot of records played with worn stylii simply because either people didn't know to change them frequently or they lost track of the playing hours, hence the reputation for wrecking discs.

If you have a link to the make and model I could have a quick look at the specs to see what type of stylus and whether its upgradeable.
 
This a link:
I-box-Walters-Timeless-collection-retro-turntable-33-45-78rpm-Bluetooth-274682573524.html
The cartridge is indeed ceramic but from Amazon Q&A they state sylus is diamond tipped.
My thoughts are If I upgraded the speakers then I should get better audio.
 
staxvolt said:
This a link:
I-box-Walters-Timeless-collection-retro-turntable-33-45-78rpm-Bluetooth-274682573524.html
The cartridge is indeed ceramic but from Amazon Q&A they state sylus is diamond tipped.
My thoughts are If I upgraded the speakers then I should get better audio.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.

The word "ceramic" refers to the motor mechanism. That's the bit that creates the electrical signal. If you're of a certain age then you might have heard of crystal radios. You may have also come across the term piezo-electric. There's a type of crystal that when put under pressure it generates an electrical signal. Gas stove tops and gas fires also used these to create the ignition spark.

The same type of crystal is used in basic cartridges, hence "ceramic cartridge". This is distinct from moving magnet and moving coil cartridges where the signal is generated by the interaction between a wire coil and a magnetic field. The type of tip on the stylus is independent of the motor mechanism. I've seen reference to diamond, ruby, sapphire and even red diamond. This last one makes me laugh. Real red diamonds are far rarer than clear diamonds. They're also rarer than pink and blue diamonds. I'm sceptical then that any company would go to the trouble and expense of sourcing red diamonds to make turntable cartridge replacement styli that sell for under a fiver a piece when real or engineered diamonds are more common and cheaper.

I'd take any claims about the material of the stylus being diamond with a pinch of salt.

Outside of some specialist material produced in tiny amounts in a lab, diamonds remain the hardest of the widely-available materials in the world. On the Mohs scale they rate a 10; the highest score. Sapphires and rubies rate a 9. There's no problem using a ruby or sapphire-tipped stylus. They just need changing more often. Allow for around 200 playing hours. Given the low cost of the replacement styli then this really isn't an issue.

Regarding external speakers and whether the source needs to be upgraded, my view is that the internal speakers are built to a price. When you consider that the going price for the deck with what looks like a CD player and radio and USB playback comes to roughly £100 including the reseller's margin then there's not going to be a lot of budget to spend on high quality internal speakers. A pair of external powered speakers for £50-£100 will be a significant improvement but without going over the top. They'll let you hear more of what's on the record.

Enjoy your records. Take care of them. Change the stylus every 200 hrs. Use a record cleaning brush - this one is excellent since it has two rows of carbon fibre bristles rather than the single row in look-alike products. I've been using an original version made by Hunt EDA for over 35 years and it's still going strong - add the external speakers. Should you decide at some point to move the game up a notch then come back to us for some system advice.
 
Video is informative, but I am stuck with the system for now as it was a present.

Thanks lucid for the detailed info and links.
Speaker price makes sense as my gut feeling was to go ones similar in price to the unit.

Would the connection be as simple as phono to phono single cable for each speaker.

I now have something to go on.
 
staxvolt said:
Would the connection be as simple as phono to phono single cable for each speaker.

I now have something to go on.
Click to expand...

The way these powered speakers tend to be built is that one speaker holds the stereo amp. That means the connection from the record player to that speaker is by stereo phono cable. The second speaker of the pair is passive - i.e. a box with speaker drivers but no amp built in. This speaker is powered via a speaker cable from the amplified speaker.

Check out the product shots for the Edifier R1580MB. One of them shows the rear panel. You can see the stereo RCA sockets for AUX. That's where you connect from your record player's line out. At the bottom of the same image you can see the spring clip terminals (red, black) for one speaker wire. That's the one that goes to the second speaker.
 
That Tech Moan video; his main gripe is that a budget record player is made with budget parts... Is that right?

Colour me surprised! A £99 record/CD/MP3/radio player with amp and speakers built in doesn't include a hundred-quid's-worth of turntable!?! Waaaahhh! Mother, the world isn't being fair again. Waah-waaaah-sob-sob.

I have seen some of his other videos, and on the whole they've been okay. This and the Lidl £89 Dual DT 250 USB ones though I think he's over- stretching the bounds his knowledge. The Dual is (was) remarkable value, but it's not a record player. There's no built-in amp and speakers.

He also referred to Dansettes from the 50s and 60s as 'cheap record players'. Nu-uhr. They were the equivalent of £600-£800 in today's money. Hardly chump change then.

While we're here, what's he got against straight tonearms? This doesn't appear to be a problem for tonearm manufacturers of present and past such as Linn, Naim, Hadcock, SME, Mission, Rega, Roksan, Pro-Ject and several others.
 
lucid said:
That Tech Moan video; his main gripe is that a budget record player is made with budget parts... Is that right?

Colour me surprised! A £99 record/CD/MP3/radio player with amp and speakers built in doesn't include a hundred-quid's-worth of turntable!?! Waaaahhh! Mother, the world isn't being fair again. Waah-waaaah-sob-sob.

I have seen some of his other videos, and on the whole they've been okay. This and the Lidl £89 Dual DT 250 USB ones though I think he's over- stretching the bounds his knowledge. The Dual is (was) remarkable value, but it's not a record player. There's no built-in amp and speakers.

He also referred to Dansettes from the 50s and 60s as 'cheap record players'. Nu-uhr. They were the equivalent of £600-£800 in today's money. Hardly chump change then.

While we're here, what's he got against straight tonearms? This doesn't appear to be a problem for tonearm manufacturers of present and past such as Linn, Naim, Hadcock, SME, Mission, Rega, Roksan, Pro-Ject and several others.
Click to expand...

There's other sources staying the cheap record players you get from China/Argos/b&m for £30 trash records
 
hornetstinger said:
There's other sources staying the cheap record players you get from China/Argos/b&m for £30 trash records
Click to expand...
Well, people say a lot of things.

Are these turntables really that much worse than the decks that adorned the top of stack systems and midi systems from the '80s and '90s? I don't recall seeing tracking weight adjustment or anti-skate control on those. I wouldn't mind betting they used a very similar P-mount cartridge too.
 
All interesting stuff.
Yes it has red cartridge.

I fully understand comments about quality, but for the sake of my daughters, I will put up with it for now.
They think it sounds ok, and I will start by upgrading the speakers and buy record cleaning items.

Note the record player is only part of the bits I will use.
Bluetooth, radio, cd, usb are all useful, even though there is compromise in quality to accommodate.
 
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