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Allendale v Conroe?

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
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Nottingham
I am currently considering a motherboard/processor/ram/graphics card upgrade, and I am currently torn between which C2D processor to get. Is it worth the extra £80 to get the E6600 compared to the E4300, or is somewhere in between such as the E6400 the best bet?

I don't mind spending the bit extra if it's really worthwhile, but I don't want to waste £80 on diminishing returns.

It's do be matched with 2GB of DDR2 ram and a 8800GTS or X1950 pro.


Thanks, Andrew.
 
Some gaming (I'm not a big gamer at all but like it to run well when I do. Supreme commander and Battlefield at the moment)

Video encoding

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90% of the time though it's just used for web browsing.
 
The extra cache makes little difference at the same clock speeds.

I have a 6400 @ 3.8ghz and the difference is tiny compared to the 6600 i had running at the same speed.
 
Thanks for the advice.

So if the 6600 isn't worth the money, the big question is should I get the 6400 or 6300?
 
Abyss said:
Thanks for the advice.

So if the 6600 isn't worth the money, the big question is should I get the 6400 or 6300?


Imo the 6300, that's what i'd get, however overclocking might be a little bit easier on the 6400 due to a bit higher multi....
 
Abyss said:
Thanks for the advice.

So if the 6600 isn't worth the money, the big question is should I get the 6400 or 6300?
Depends on your mobo, if your mobo can hit high FSB's (480 wiil give you over 3.3ghz) then an E6300 is a good buy.
 
I believe you need to look at all the components to get one whole overclock.

1. The motherboard - lower multipliers require high FSBs. Intel P965 chipset boards do very well here, but beware the strap-changes that often seem to happen that makes CPUs running between 400 and 455FSB run slower than ones running under 400FSB!

2. The RAM - Many boards require the RAM to run at a fixed ratio. This quite often means that PC6400 RAM is the minimum and to optimally overclock a low multiplier CPU, you need really good RAM. Expensive RAM.

3. The cooling - high FSBs place big demands on all the chipset components so the cooling of the NB and SB can be critical to getting a stable overclock. All the newer Intel chips all seem to suffer significantly higher core temperatures than the very early ones, although the reason for this is unclear, it is definitely the case that many have concave Integrated Heat Shields (IHS) and some have poor contact between the cores and the IHS. E4300 CPUs also seem to need lots of volts to get them overclocking above 3GHz so CPU cooling is a factor too.

4. The CPU

For this, I think you need to set a target value you want to overclock to. I like to pick 3.2GHz, because it suits my argument. I make no bones about that, and I welcome the opportunity to discuss my logic.

E6300 with 7x Multiplier requires FSB of 457 to reach 3.2GHz. Sp PC6400 RAM will also be overclocked and PC8000 RAM is required to guarantee the RAM will match the CPU capabilities. A voltage increment will almost certainly be required to get to 3.2GHz.

E6400 with 8x Multiplier requires only 400FSB to reach 3.2GHz. PC6400 RAM is not required to be overclocked, so the potential to go further is also there. A voltage increment might be required. Some E6400's don't need a voltage increase to get to 400FSB.

E6600 with 9x Multiplier requires a mere 356 FSB to get to 3.2GHz so the PC6400 is actually underclocked at that speed. Generally, E6600's will do 356FSB on stock volts, or just a little over stock volts.

At this point the E6300 will be the system producing the most heat and require the greatest cooling. The E6400 will also need good cooling, but less so. The E6600 is probably running quite cool.

Now, if you throw in the E4300 then it should enjoy the same low FSB advantage of the E6600, but it's starting from a lot further back and it needs lots of volts to get there. It produces lots of heat and therefore needs loads of cooling.

I think the sweet-spot is the E6400 as it offers a near-guaranteed 3.2GHz with ordinary PC6400 RAM, has a little more available headroom than the E6300 to go beyond 3.2GHz and it only costs £25 more.
 
harris1986 said:
what will you be using your rig for? the extra cache on intel's don't play as big a part as they do on amd platforms!
:confused:
I thought it was the other way around, hence why pretty all AMD chips have 512kb, since its no real loss from a MB.
The gaps in benchmarks and some programs between Allendale and Conroe are quite big at times.
 
WJA96 said:
I believe you need to look at all the components to get one whole overclock.

1. The motherboard - lower multipliers require high FSBs. Intel P965 chipset boards do very well here, but beware the strap-changes that often seem to happen that makes CPUs running between 400 and 455FSB run slower than ones running under 400FSB!

2. The RAM - Many boards require the RAM to run at a fixed ratio. This quite often means that PC6400 RAM is the minimum and to optimally overclock a low multiplier CPU, you need really good RAM. Expensive RAM.

3. The cooling - high FSBs place big demands on all the chipset components so the cooling of the NB and SB can be critical to getting a stable overclock. All the newer Intel chips all seem to suffer significantly higher core temperatures than the very early ones, although the reason for this is unclear, it is definitely the case that many have concave Integrated Heat Shields (IHS) and some have poor contact between the cores and the IHS. E4300 CPUs also seem to need lots of volts to get them overclocking above 3GHz so CPU cooling is a factor too.

4. The CPU

For this, I think you need to set a target value you want to overclock to. I like to pick 3.2GHz, because it suits my argument. I make no bones about that, and I welcome the opportunity to discuss my logic.

E6300 with 7x Multiplier requires FSB of 457 to reach 3.2GHz. Sp PC6400 RAM will also be overclocked and PC8000 RAM is required to guarantee the RAM will match the CPU capabilities. A voltage increment will almost certainly be required to get to 3.2GHz.

E6400 with 8x Multiplier requires only 400FSB to reach 3.2GHz. PC6400 RAM is not required to be overclocked, so the potential to go further is also there. A voltage increment might be required. Some E6400's don't need a voltage increase to get to 400FSB.

E6600 with 9x Multiplier requires a mere 356 FSB to get to 3.2GHz so the PC6400 is actually underclocked at that speed. Generally, E6600's will do 356FSB on stock volts, or just a little over stock volts.

At this point the E6300 will be the system producing the most heat and require the greatest cooling. The E6400 will also need good cooling, but less so. The E6600 is probably running quite cool.

Now, if you throw in the E4300 then it should enjoy the same low FSB advantage of the E6600, but it's starting from a lot further back and it needs lots of volts to get there. It produces lots of heat and therefore needs loads of cooling.

I think the sweet-spot is the E6400 as it offers a near-guaranteed 3.2GHz with ordinary PC6400 RAM, has a little more available headroom than the E6300 to go beyond 3.2GHz and it only costs £25 more.
Totally agree with that.
However.
If its a challenge your after and your into case modding and seeing how far you can push things then a getting 4300/6300 and pushing it to 3ghz and above can be very rewarding.
I could have bought a 6700 or above but i doubt i would have learnt half as much as i have with my 6300 when it comes to hitting 3.3ghz.
That said, WJA96 has it spot on as far as looking for the whole package, do your research and buy ballanced components.
 
6400 here and loving this chip, havnt really played too much with it as i was happy at 3GHz, perhaps once the thesis is finished then i will give it another tweak!!
 
At this point the E6300 will be the system producing the most heat and require the greatest cooling. The E6400 will also need good cooling, but less so. The E6600 is probably running quite cool.

Now, if you throw in the E4300 then it should enjoy the same low FSB advantage of the E6600, but it's starting from a lot further back and it needs lots of volts to get there. It produces lots of heat and therefore needs loads of cooling.

I think the sweet-spot is the E6400 as it offers a near-guaranteed 3.2GHz with ordinary PC6400 RAM, has a little more available headroom than the E6300 to go beyond 3.2GHz and it only costs £25 more.

The early 6300 / 6400 still supplied Vcc to deactivated SRAM on the die, whilst the SRAM is not being clocked static power leakage is still there. The E4300 and other true E6000 Allendales obviously dont suffer this problem so i dont think this is 100% true, to be honest i don't agree at all but hey :D

The E4300 is a bad comparison CPU as the package is weaker than the E6000 series but i'd go for it because in the low 3GHz range you guys are aiming for i don't think the package is too much of a problem...
 
Starfall said:
The early 6300 / 6400 still supplied Vcc to deactivated SRAM on the die, whilst the SRAM is not being clocked static power leakage is still there. The E4300 and other true E6000 Allendales obviously dont suffer this problem so i dont think this is 100% true, to be honest i don't agree at all but hey :D

Do you know - I have no idea what you mean by that, but I'm interested in being educated as you obviously know something about the Early 6x00 series processors that I don't.

Anyway...

In the last six months I've handled something in excess of 100 Core2Duos and I based my heat output example on the simple fact that they are basically all the same processor. You drop the multiplier, crank up the FSB and to get that you crank up the voltage. Once you increase the voltage, you increase the heat output. So an overclocked E6300 will put out more heat than an E6400 or E6300 at the same speed using their native multipliers. It's just physics.

Oh, and the official position now (and we both know it wasn't always the case) is that there are no E6x00 series Allendales. All the E6x00 series are Conroes apparently, because they all have 4Mb of cache, just not all of it working on the 2Mb models. Only the E4x00 series are Allendales apparently :rolleyes:
 
Do you know - I have no idea what you mean by that

Why not? - "It's just physics." :D


The cache was still present, just dissabled. It was still powered, even if not clocked.

B2 are Conroe, L2 are Allendale.

Only E6300's and E6400's of B2 stepping with 2MB of cache disabled were produced until a couple of months ago, as the yield increased the L2 stepping (true Allendale) with only 2MB of cache has mainly replaced the Conroe 2MB (B2).

Why not ask Intel:

http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ProcFam=2558&sSpec=&OrdCode=

L2 has been confirmed as Allendale, B2 as Conroe, you can see E6300/E6400 exists as both. The Allendale E6400/6300 are filtering into the distribution channels, as ocuk has a large stock turnover chances are that people on here have already bought E6000 series Allendales.

and we both know it wasn't always the case

How do you know what i thought?! :D

Why take "the official line" when you can just ask the manufacturer. Check the bottom CPU on that processor finder page - What is it and what stepping is it? :D
 
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Abyss said:
Some gaming (I'm not a big gamer at all but like it to run well when I do. Supreme commander and Battlefield at the moment)

2 demanding games that I also play along with Halflife 2 deathmatch they both enjoy the extra ummmph that my E6400 C2d supplies at ease :)
 
I just upgraded from an amd rig with an opteron 175 to C2D. I went budget (see sig) and in that I got a 4300. It was a bit difficult getting my head aroung the bios at first, but now have my 4300 at 3ghz stable and sure Im it can do more just havn't got round to trying it!!

I didn't do a windows install to begin with and the performance increase was incredible, the Pc was so much more responsive. With a new install (after being unable to flash bios, which I later found out was to do with creative drivers grr) startup is incredibly fast. The upgrade to C2D has certainly been wothwhile.

With an e4300 the 9x multiplier means I can get my processor higher with a lower FSB than the e6300. :D
 
WJA96 said:
E6400 with 8x Multiplier requires only 400FSB to reach 3.2GHz. PC6400 RAM is not required to be overclocked, so the potential to go further is also there. A voltage increment might be required. Some E6400's don't need a voltage increase to get to 400FSB.

E6600 with 9x Multiplier requires a mere 356 FSB to get to 3.2GHz so the PC6400 is actually underclocked at that speed. Generally, E6600's will do 356FSB on stock volts, or just a little over stock volts.

Um, you can change the multiplier and theres more potential for a higher overclock with an E6600 actually, although I do agree with the general consensus...
 
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