Almost had a crash yesterday

EdwardTeach · 4 Jan 2014 at 09:46

I will describe the situation, and I just wanted to confirm who was in the wrong.

If you are on a dual carriageway you have no obligation to show down to let emerging traffic on right? it would be courteous to move into the other lane, if there is space - but there is no obligation. Eg when I was setting out on my journey yesterday I needed to emerge on to the carriageway, there was a larg lorry coming towards me, I knew that the lorry would neither slow down or change lanes so I stopped and waited for there to be a safe gap.

On my way home I was travelling in the left hand lane of the dual carriageway, and was aware of a car intending on join the road. However I was doing 70 and woukd have had tobbreak hard to let the car in and there were cars in the right hand lane, so I neither slowed down or changed lanes and I expected the emerging car to slow down and wait for a safe gap. to my surprise the driver kept going and entered the road just as I was driving past and I had to swerve to avoid him. He was in the wrong right?

I had to swerve slightly blindly, as it happened very quickly and I can't be sure where the cars were to my right.

The whole thing freaked me out a bit as I had my two kids in the back. Normally I make a point of being in the right hand lane when I pass an emerging junction -I think I will make this a hard rule. This time I had pulled into the left hand lane to let some faster drivers overtake.

dacads · 4 Jan 2014 at 09:50

Yep you have right of way the other guy needs to take a refresher lesson if he's forgotten a basic like that

It's ashame these easily avoidable situations occur regularly

theone8181 · 4 Jan 2014 at 09:51

EdwardTeach said:
I will describe the situation, and I just wanted to confirm who was in the wrong.

If you are on a dual carriageway you have no obligation to show down to let emerging traffic on right? it would be courteous to move into the other lane, if there is space - but there is no obligation. Eg when I was setting out on my journey yesterday I needed to emerge on to the carriageway, there was a larg lorry coming towards me, I knew that the lorry would neither slow down or change lanes so I stopped and waited for there to be a safe gap.

On my way home I was travelling in the left hand lane of the dual carriageway, and was aware of a car intending on join the road. However I was doing 70 and woukd have had tobbreak hard to let the car in and there were cars in the right hand lane, so I neither slowed down or changed lanes and I expected the emerging car to slow down and wait for a safe gap. to my surprise the driver kept going and entered the road just as I was driving past and I had to swerve to avoid him. He was in the wrong right?

I had to swerve slightly blindly, as it happened very quickly and I can't be sure where the cars were to my right.

The whole thing freaked me out a bit as I had my two kids in the back. Normally I make a point of being in the right hand lane when I pass an emerging junction -I think I will make this a hard rule. This time I had pulled into the left hand lane to let some faster drivers overtake.

I always aim to be in the right hand lane for that very reason. What does annoy me is if im on the slip road pulling out and there's somebody on the inside lane on the duel carriageway with nothing in the outside lane and they refuse to pull over i thought it was a bit of common sense to move over if the laneis empty.

Jokester · 4 Jan 2014 at 09:55

It's a give way line at the end of the slip road typically.

ianh · 4 Jan 2014 at 10:07

If I had the money I'd love to make a national TV/newspaper advert reminding people that's it's the person joining the road/carriageway/motorway that HAS to give way by law.

Whilst it's become an acceptable practice to move over to the right lane if possible, it's not mandatory and those joining must give way (even stopping if thats what it takes) if the left lane is busy, which 95% of drivers I encounter seem to have forgotten from their driving test and then they either pull out dangerously or are full of road rage because no-one would pull over for them and they had to slow down (oh the horror).

-Ad- · 4 Jan 2014 at 10:46

Whatever you do don't stop at the end of the slip road. See it happening more and more and its incredibly dangerous and stupid.

Plan ahead more, ensure you're up to at least 60, there's a big enough gap to the car in front in case theubdo something stupid, then be in the right gear to either nail it to get on, or be prepares to slow down and merge.

Simples.

#Chri5# · 4 Jan 2014 at 10:47

My Dad always taught me that having the right of way won't stop a numpty from crashing into you. So whilst being on the main carriageway means you shouldn't have to brake, I will brake to avoid some muppet who isn't paying attention or trying to be king of the road...

Scythe · 4 Jan 2014 at 11:30

The A500 in Stoke is bad for this. People seem to think that the slip road has right of way and brakes on the carriageway. Causes loads of traffic problems as the majority of motorists in Stoke are morons.

Scania · 4 Jan 2014 at 11:39

As an HGV driver, I expect drivers to just pull out on me - most do - the joining driver was clearly in the wrong.

I had the exact same thing happen to me yesterday, left Tilbury docks fully loaded (44t gross) car indicating to leave layby as I approached, couldn't move over due to a van along side, car just pulled out anyway!
Cue me leaning on horn and braking hard, thankfully the idiot pulled back in just before I rear ended him.
Once on the A13 the prat pulled along side me and was giving me insulting gestures....
The stupidity of car drivers never ceased to amaze and scare me!

Orionaut · 4 Jan 2014 at 11:57

-Ad- said:
Whatever you do don't stop at the end of the slip road. See it happening more and more and its incredibly dangerous and stupid.

Plan ahead more, ensure you're up to at least 60, there's a big enough gap to the car in front in case theubdo something stupid, then be in the right gear to either nail it to get on, or be prepares to slow down and merge.

Simples.

Considering the numbers of vehicles that are limited to little more than 50 these days (And not just obvious ones like big trucks) this is somewhat unhelpful advise.

Safe and efficient use of slip roads is essentially a cooperative venture.

#1) Joining traffic has a "duty" to build up speed as far as is possible in order to ensure a clean merge.

#2) L1 traffic has a "duty" to ensure that gaps are available for joining traffic to safely merge into.

Joining traffic will only be confident in fulfilling #1 if they are confident that L1 traffic is fulfilling #2

Driving down L1 at 70 on the approach to on-slips is a #2 fail! (As is only allowing 1-2 second gaps)

People who

stop at the end of the slip road. See it happening more and more and its incredibly dangerous and stupid.

will generally be doing so because as they get to the end of the slip they find themselves confronted by bumper to bumper traffic blocking them from merging!

While L1 traffic does have "Right of Way" this does NOT confer the right to run people who you do not think are driving fast enough off the road! A green light doesn't give you the right to mow down unwary pedestrians either.

"Safe" use of L1 on the approach to on slips involves slowing to 55 or so and allowing a 3-4 second gap with the vehicle in front to build up (So that there is actually a safe gap for merging traffic to merge into)

If you are not willing to do this, stick to L2!

Do NOT switch from L2 to L1 on the approach to the slip! and certainly do not do so at high speed!

This time I had pulled into the left hand lane to let some faster drivers overtake.

This kind of sounds like this is what happened here!

(On slip traffic checks L1, Clear, continues with merge only to find that high speed driver has chosen that moment to switch from L2 to L1 and is now up his arse! :mad:

)

There is absolutely no excuse for running into the back of merging traffic at an on-slip! This is nothing like somebody pulling suddenly out of a side road without any warning! L1 traffic has many seconds with which to assess the situation (and a much better viewpoint to boot) and make whatever mitigation/course/speed corrections might be necessary to avoid collision!

I would fully expect a driver who rear ended on-slip traffic at 70MPH to go without a license for a while and possibly even spend some time in one of her Majesties fine hostelries! (And even if this didnt happen, His insurance would be loaded for years to come since insurance companies are less fussy about the legalistic niceties when concluding that somebody is a dangerous/high_risk driver!)

dacads · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:02

-Ad- said:
Whatever you do don't stop at the end of the slip road. See it happening more and more and its incredibly dangerous and stupid.

Plan ahead more, ensure you're up to at least 60, there's a big enough gap to the car in front in case theubdo something stupid, then be in the right gear to either nail it to get on, or be prepares to slow down and merge.

Simples.

What? Yes you should be joining at 60+ MPH but that doesn't mean you have right of way, so you are meant to stop if necessary

rodenal · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:05

Where I get a bit confudled by people running to the end of slip roads then stopping is when the slip road effectively becomes hard shoulder - should I get to the end (never happened tbh) of the slip road and not be able to join I'd be continuing along the hard shoulder a couple of hundred yards rather than slamming on the anchors!

Lopéz · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:09

I'm with Orionaut. Joining roads via a slip is a cooperative maneuver, it requires all traffic to work together. "Right of way" won't mean that much in the event of a collision.

We run courses at work in association with the Police, ROSPA and so on - one of the scenarios often discussed is this one:

Car 1 joining motorway via slip road. Car 2 at 45mph in L1 blocking slip. L2 clear - but speeding Car 3 approaching situation at 85mph in L2. Car 1 on slip comes to a stop at the end of the slip. Car 4 behind on slip hits stopped car on slip which pushes it into L1, hitting Car 2 which then hits Car 3.

All 4 cars have hit something, who is at fault?

The answer is - all of them. They could have all taken some form of preventative action which could have avoided the collision.

EdwardTeach · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:10

-Ad- said:
Whatever you do don't stop at the end of the slip road. See it happening more and more and its incredibly dangerous and stupid.

Plan ahead more, ensure you're up to at least 60, there's a big enough gap to the car in front in case theubdo something stupid, then be in the right gear to either nail it to get on, or be prepares to slow down and merge.

Simples.

If there is a long lorry then stopping can be unavoidable.

The junction I usually join at is quite blind. There is a grass bank and a bridge to the right as you join, which means that you cant see the traffic until you are nearly parallel and about to join the road.

I drive an old volvo estate, so i dont necessarily have the speed to accelerate away in front of a lorry!

rodenal · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:10

It's not difficult tbh - all it requires is common sense. A bit worrying when peoples attitude becomes "I have right of way, I will not help regardless".

Some people panic in cars when things don't go perfectly smoothly - these are the type of people who tend to react rashly i.e slamming on the anchors at the last minute or just swerving and hoping for the best - I do my upmost to avoid them but you can't always win!

Guy pulled out infront of me at a roundabout recently, low speed and no big deal but he realised what was happening....then panicked and just stopped, blocking me and traffic from the exit I wanted to leave at. He didn't mean to cause any harm, probably just didn't see me when pulling out but brain obviously didn't engage common sense mode and just keep driving.

SilverTongue · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:19

Whilst the joining driver was in the wrong, I am slightly confused by this statement...

EdwardTeach said:
This time I had pulled into the left hand lane to let some faster drivers overtake.

If the left hand lane was clear enough for you to move over to allow faster cars to overtake, why were you even lane 2? Unless you had just overtaken somebody?

EdwardTeach · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:19

Orionaut said:
Do NOT switch from L2 to L1 on the approach to the slip! and certainly do not do so at high speed!

This kind of sounds like this is what happened here!

(On slip traffic checks L1, Clear, continues with merge only to find that high speed driver has chosen that moment to switch from L2 to L1 and is now up his arse! )

I didn't change into L1 just before approach to the slip. I had pulled over a while earlier as I felt that there were a few cards behind me in L2 who were keen to go a bit faster than I was comfortable with.

From the point of view of the driver in the slip - he should have seen me in L1 travelling reasonably fast, and there was clearly no gap for him to emerge into.

EdwardTeach · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:21

SilverTongue said:
Whilst the joining driver was in the wrong, I am slightly confused by this statement...

If the left hand lane was clear enough for you to move over to allow faster cars to overtake, why were you even lane 2? Unless you had just overtaken somebody?

I had been overtaking some cars, and then pulled over into L1 well in advance of the slip road (i.e before the slip was visible)

Buchanan0204 · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:28

Drivings like anything else, some people are just useless at it and others naturally pretty good. There's a lot involved, reaction time, awareness, concentration levels, multi tasking etc.

Seeing a situation develop and not doing anything about or planning ahead is daft, waiting till the last minute and then swerving makes you more dangerous than him. If you see something develop or even if it has potential. Start making plans, don't hope for the best. People do silly things in cars, plan for their errors.

sigma · 4 Jan 2014 at 12:29

If I am in L1 I check L2 when I see a junction ahead so I can see what's going on. As I approach the jct I will either move to L2 if there are cars joining or anticipate having to speed up or slow down in L1. Depending on traffic level and the road type I will move over to L2 before the jct if it is free. I prefer driving at night as you can usually see cars joining quite early, providing they have their lights on.

'Right of way' might mean something on paper but on the road it means bugger all to 99% of drivers. Even if it my right of way I will always try to avoid a collision.