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AMD, ARM, Imagination, Samsung alliance publish official shared GPU-CPU blueprints

Soldato
Joined
29 May 2006
Posts
5,381
Not a lot to say really. Almost all the big GPU names are behind a push for Heterogeneous processing.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/16/hsa_foundation_spec_published/

With NVidia not taking part so this could be another area that gets implanted first in mobile system-on-chips then later moves to desktops after they see how useful it is. Lets hope NVidia gets onboard as Heterogeneous processing is good for everyone.
 
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AMD are already attempting this with their APUs, it could be a very exciting prospect if more companies get involved and the concept matures.
 
Without the two companies mentioned it's going nowhere on the desktop/laptop/server/HPC space.

Samsung don't even use their own chips for half their phones, while ARM performance in the real world is still laughable. http://anandtech.com/show/8357/exploring-the-low-end-and-micro-server-platforms

Software is what matters, Java is going HSA as is much other software. If the software is HSA and is portable between platforms then you get the performance boost on desktop.

Samsung don't always use their own chips, they often use Qualcomm.... who are in the HSA alliance and will be amongst the first with released HSA compatible chips.

Mediatek, Qualcomm, Samsung, ARM, Imagination, AMD are the key players and that is the majority of the mobile market.

Marvell, Broadcom, S3, Tensilico, Synopsys, Via, ubunto, Sony, Huawei, Oracle are all involved. Intel and Nvidia are effectively small in terms of chips in the market by comparison, very small.

HSA doesn't need Intel/Nvidia go gain penetration in the desktop market. Even the link you provided showed a whole host of Java performance benchmarks. As a result of the mobile industry being overwhelmingly on board with HSA, Java is going full HSA support... meaning Java the language and all Java software in the future will be HSA compatible, regardless of if Intel want it to be or not.

opengl/Vulkan will be prevalent on mobile platforms, run on what will be dozens of HSA compatible cpu/gpu combinations... again this will bleed over to desktop.

There is enough industry support in mobile, the languages and API's used throughout computing ARE already adapting, desktop can't prevent this, and it will benefit AMD on desktop, mobile, everywhere really.
 
Ah I see we are playing the HSA will magically speed everything up card.

Without Intel it's dead in the water in terms of server and desktop. Yea I'm sure it might do something on mobiles, but nobody will care if their Facebook pictures process slightly faster. Although all the backend stuff that all these weak mobile chips rely upon won't be running HSA compatible systems. AMD are dead these days in the server market. As for ARM they get destroyed by Intel once you move beyond tablet power windows. Adding a bit of GPU isn't going to make up for that.

Intel and Nvidia control the markets that matter. Server/desktop/laptop/HPC this is where the heavy lifting happens, that's where the money is. The HSA alliance are nowhere in these areas.
 
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Intel has no say in it getting developed or supported on desktop - which means they'll almost certainly be looking to catch up on this tech to keep their current competitive edge on desktop and server parts. Many companies are after every last bit of performance, often in Java services, and will welcome the development.

It'll be a big deal on mobile too where performance and power efficiency are so closely linked.

How it impacts on nVidia I have no idea.
 
Intel are massively ahead of their competition on the desktop and server. I don't believe for a moment that HSA is going to change that around. Especially for application servers.
 
Intel are massively ahead of their competition on the desktop and server. I don't believe for a moment that HSA is going to change that around. Especially for application servers.
Both ARM and Imagination are making a push into servers with their own CPU’s this will give them an advantage to help break in. ARM, Imagination and AMD make up the majority of the CPU world market. Same for GPU’s last time I looked NVidia didn’t even place in the top 5 when it comes to world market share.

With the majority of the world’s CPU’s and GPU’s backing this how long do you think it will be until the smaller players like NVidia get pushed into it? Do you really think Intel will leave them self at such a disadvantage?

The world is moving towards an unified system. We have seen the start of it with the unified new Vulkan API’s between platforms. This is just another step for unified hardware.

Heterogeneous processing is the way forward. Anyone who doesn’t adapt it will find them self-left behind over time.
 
AMD/HSA has been making noises for years with very little to show for it, wake me up when something actually happens :S
 
Samsung, etc. have backed it for years - this is hardly news (HSA and big names involved) unless someone actually does something with this blueprint, etc.
 
Nvidia and Intel will never get onboard as its an AMD initiative.

Not that it matters too much as everyone else is.
 
Intel are massively ahead of their competition on the desktop and server. I don't believe for a moment that HSA is going to change that around. Especially for application servers.

You do realise I presume, that Intel have gone from pure CPU's what 6-8 years ago to dedicating a HUGE amount of on die transistors to the GPU. What on earth makes you think Intel aren't going to go towards the same types of software for compute, server, desktop and applications. You think Intel spent billions on R&D to add huge gpu's to their highest volume selling parts and will entirely ignore them while the rest of the industry starts to utilise them better?

Intel has absolutely made all the same moves in terms of hardware. They have made all the same cpu>apu>soc moves that AMD and mobile chips have, you think this was for minecraft alone? No one rates Intel drivers for 'proper' gaming, no one buys a gaming laptop or desktop looking for an Intel GPU. They put a huge GPU in every architecture but have almost no plans to use it, even though as soon as they went APU they added things like quicksync?

Why haven't they got loads of gpu compute performance, applications? Because the industry doesn't support it, AMD the same, they have the hardware but not full industry support. There are no real native languages that help do parallel acceleration WITHOUT explicit complex coding and software companies don't like specific code to target multiple different architectures on multiple platforms because it's a huge amount of extra work. That is what Java(and other languages) are adding. HSA is the industry support side of what AMD added in hardware. The only difference is with HSA support in Java, coders can VERY easily add commands to tell Java to use gpu compute and it will be able to use this code on any HSA compatible hardware. IT means writing both simplified/easier code to take advantage of gpu compute AND it means writing it ONCE which gets used on every platform rather than complex/difficult code that they need to code lots of times and differently and support that for every platform they use.

Hardware is the complex but still easy part... getting the industry as a whole to move to new languages and code differently... that is the exceptionally hard part.

AMD have ostensibly had DX12 hardware for what, 3-4 years... and software support is coming end of this year from MS. it took them starting Mantle to push MS then the industry in general to support 4 year old hardware to the best of it's capability.


Your own link showed in multiple cases where the FIRST 64bit ARM chips were within the same ballpark in many instances of LONG established 4/5th generation Intel chips. Not least the software you spoke about has been optimised for Intel chips/architectures for a decade, you don't get the same level of optimisation with a first gen product that has never been available before. There is a huge amount of improvement that will come from ARM chips in server space in a short space of time, software optimisation and second/third gen hardware with MUCH shorter development cycles to fix all the biggest problems. More to the point is the cost of an ARM server vs the cost of an expensive Xeon server.

ARM is making big inroads into servers, this will continue, software support WILL improve dramatically for ARM servers, ARM chips will improve very quickly in the area. HSA will make it easier for software devs to target more platforms, in server, in mobile, in desktop without having to change as much code.

If you think Intel aren't also ready for gpu compute, you're blind to everything Intel has done in the past 7-8 years. The industry has just been waiting on the tools to move forward with supporting gpu compute properly. HSA is such a tool which many major software devs and multiple MASSIVE hardware companies are going to support.
 
Can you please at least try and be a bit more concise with your posts, far too many words with such little content as always. Plus the usual off topics ramblings.

Anyway. Just adding some simple and wide flops is not going to be the magic bullet you think it will. The vast majority of applications mobile, desktop and server still rely far more upon complex integer performance. Plus I think you are getting confused (as usual) if you think this will make code anymore portable between architectures. HSA code targeting ARM flavour of the month will need to be rewritten if it's to target x86.
 
Can you please at least try and be a bit more concise with your posts, far too many words with such little content as always. Plus the usual off topics ramblings.

Anyway. Just adding some simple and wide flops is not going to be the magic bullet you think it will. The vast majority of applications mobile, desktop and server still rely far more upon complex integer performance. Plus I think you are getting confused (as usual) if you think this will make code anymore portable between architectures. HSA code targeting ARM flavour of the month will need to be rewritten if it's to target x86.

With x86 everyone will have to pay Intel a fee, Mobile doesn't use x86, ARM have their own instruction sets with everyone outside of Desktop using those, including AMD.

Intel have the monopoly on Desktop, for Servers and Desktop they need AMD's x86_64 which they currently get through cross licensing agreements.

Desktop computing is fading, x86 along with it. ARM and AMD's own independent 64Bit sets are the future.

And there will come a point where AMD have no use or interest in x86, at which point they will pull x86_64 from under Intel's feet.
 
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Plus I think you are getting confused (as usual) if you think this will make code anymore portable between architectures. HSA code targeting ARM flavour of the month will need to be rewritten if it's to target x86.
That’s wrong as I understand it. The code is already portable between MIPS, x86 and ARM. MIPs and X86 CPU’s in tablets can already today pretty much run everything an ARM tablet can with Android. The code is compiled when you download for the CPU type you use isn’t it? CPU architecture don't limit us as much anymore. Like I said before the industry is moving to a run on everything goal. It doesn't matter if you have a desktop, mobile, MIPS, ARM or Intel.
 
That’s wrong as I understand it. The code is already portable between MIPS, x86 and ARM. MIPs and X86 CPU’s in tablets can already today pretty much run everything an ARM tablet can with Android. The code is compiled when you download for the CPU type you use isn’t it? CPU architecture don't limit us as much anymore. Like I said before the industry is moving to a run on everything goal. It doesn't matter if you have a desktop, mobile, MIPS, ARM or Intel.

That's only viable for Android applications written in their flavour of Java (which are not going to win any performance awards). Anything needing best performance will be written as a native app, which will only work on the CPU type is was compiled for. Write once run anywhere code is always going to have a performance trade off.
 
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