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AMD demonstrates Ryzen 9 5900X prototype with 3D V-Cache stack chiplet design

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by RavenXXX2, 1 Jun 2021.

  1. RavenXXX2

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2007

    Posts: 19,389

    Location: North West

    Last edited: 1 Jun 2021
  2. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,289

    Location: Sussex

    Yes, this was a bit unexpected.
    Ian over on AT managed to write a detailed enough article within an hour or so:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/1672...acked-vcache-technology-2-tbsec-for-15-gaming
    Guess he's got a keen interest in packaging tech and AT have covered some of the lead-up to this earlier.

    Broadwell 'C' here we come again. Will be interesting to see if anything except games benefits from this.

    TES and Fallout might like this a lot. So it is possible that - instead of Bethesda fixing the Creation Engine - CPUs with generous cache might brute force a fix instead.
     
  3. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: 9 Nov 2009

    Posts: 21,925

    Location: Planet Earth

    Both AMD and Intel have talked about the use of such stacking,but the bigger issue is going to be cooling each layer sufficiently. Is the extra cache on top of the existing cache locations on the chiplet?? It would make sense of the copper connection layer to be over the cores??
     
  4. Orcvader

    Capodecina

    Joined: 11 Oct 2009

    Posts: 14,945

    Location: Greater London

    I was expecting this to arrive sooner or later but not this soon. I assumed they were planning to do this as some sort of L4 cache on the IO die first but having it directly on the CCX will mean better performance improvements. No mention on thermals and extra power usage though, would've been nice to see the difference.
     
  5. alec

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Dec 2016

    Posts: 1,451

    Location: Oxford

    Not sure what made AMD show this hack job.
    We already knew that more cache is more better for games. Why rush and show unfinished solution?

    Is it because Zen 4 is getting delayed? So these Zen3+cache CPUs will be the first iteration on AM5?
     
  6. ltron

    Mobster

    Joined: 30 Aug 2014

    Posts: 3,570

    Wow, what a surprise. I was going to wait until Zen 4 and DDR 5 to upgrade but now I won't bother, an unexpected CPU upgrade here I come :cry:.
     
  7. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,289

    Location: Sussex

    Aside from winning in gaming benchmarks a bit more, I suspect that part of the reason is that even a limited run (5900XT and 5950XT only, for example) will give them plenty of experience of this for more ambitious ideas later.
    For SRAM, thermals are not a major issue but for more ambitious stuff like GPUs, neural etc etc, they might be.
    Would give them great versatility and take chiplets to a totally new level. Everyone loves LEGO, right?
     
  8. NinjaCool

    Hitman

    Joined: 27 Mar 2010

    Posts: 896

    Location: Denmark

    AMD's 3D V-Cache seems very impressive and it would be great if the rumored Zen 3 refresh will implement this tech! However such a refresh probably has to come out in this year or it would be too close to the big 5nm Zen 4 launch.
     
  9. Toasty

    Mobster

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,627

    Location: Sunderland

    Makes sense if Zen 4 is not until Q4 2022, AlderLake is what about 6 Months away and will probably take gaming crown back. So launch 5900XT and 5950XT with this added cache around the same time.
     
  10. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,358

    "ready to start production at the end of this year"

    Why not give a little sneak peak into what's coming?, what's wrong with that, is that not what we want?

    11900K, 16MB L3: 250GB/s
    5950X, 64MB L3: 650GB/s
    6950X, 192MB L3: 2,000GB/s
     
  11. Loxa

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2011

    Posts: 2,094

    How will this affect the heat output because at the moment it is already very high.
     
  12. ZP9

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 28 Nov 2018

    Posts: 2,075

    Location: London

    Those numbers are so ridiculous, 2TB a second :cry:
     
  13. KompuKare

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Dec 2010

    Posts: 1,289

    Location: Sussex

    Very high as in very concentrated due to 7nm being, well, dense?

    It's cache so not very power hungry but also, the illustrations seemed to indicate it being beside the main die. We shouldn't expect miracles but at least it is not stacked on top of the main CPU.
     
  14. RavenXXX2

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2007

    Posts: 19,389

    Location: North West

  15. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 13 Oct 2006

    Posts: 79,425

    May be more to the story than the average performance uplift - AMD has paid a bit of attention to the minimums and latency situation with the 5000 series CPUs and the overall quality of experience in some cases can be vastly better due to higher lows and less variance.
     
  16. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,358

    So this is how they are going to + up Zen 3? By 3D stacking a chunk of Cache on top of it?

    Okay.... that's pretty interesting, so the chip AMD demoed wasn't just a prototype for Zen 4, its actually a thing, a Zen 3 thing. that's quite a +.

    Edit: you know what, it probably is a prototype for Zen 4, and we get to test the prototype. for a fee.
     
  17. Destination

    Capodecina

    Joined: 31 May 2009

    Posts: 20,889

    There is no indication that alderlake will achieve anything unfortunately, and unless I missed it Intel didn't overly talk about it or indeed confirm release period for it.
    Maybe I missed this info?
     
  18. Destination

    Capodecina

    Joined: 31 May 2009

    Posts: 20,889

    From the chiplets, hmm my 5900 rarely gets above 70
     
  19. Perfect_Chaos

    Mobster

    Joined: 26 Aug 2004

    Posts: 4,820

    Location: South Wales

    They are probably doing it because Intel are already supposed to be doing it with Raptor Lake straight after Alder Lake, with the gaming cache or whatever.
     
  20. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Mar 2012

    Posts: 39,358

    Raptor Lake is years away tho.