AMD Fiji HBM limited to 4GB stacked memory

[Kaapstad]

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/36995-amd-fiji-hbm-limited-to-4gb-stacked-memory

 

[Kaapstad]

In reality then these first gen HBM cards are still going to be 4K limited in single gpu use, while they will offer great performance below 4k and will blow pretty much all other gpu's away.

I don't think they will be much faster than cards not using HBM. Once the memory is fast enough to keep up with the GPU anything over the top is wasted. To get more speed the GPU needs to be faster to use the extra memory speed.

 

[Kaapstad]

Depends on the speed of their core too. It doesn't matter what much or little vram the card has if the core hasn't got the grunt to make use of it.

+1

 

[Kaapstad]

Can't they use the compression technology that was used in Tonga? If they could 4GB of VRAM should be enough.

Compression only helps to move the data but when it arrives in memory it still needs the same amount of space as a system that does not use it.

Compression also hinders performance when used in a lot of things as time and sometimes extra hardware is needed to do the compressing.

 

[Kaapstad]

Jesus, that article and most of the posts in this thread are so completely daft.

One, HBM requires an interposer, HBM2 doesn't change this, there is no moving to a single chip design. The interposer is the thing that makes HBM work over HMC. HMC uses normal bumps off package design, HBM is an on package design.

Second, HBM IS STACKED RAM, Fud you unbelievably ignorant ****. HBM is a stack of 4 to 8 chips, without chip stacking HBM nor HMC could exist. Nvidia are going to be using HBM, they are going to be using an interposer, they are absolutely not using a "better method than AMD", they are using the exact same method in exactly the same way. Group of HBM chips connected via interposer to the gpu to get the memory on package in as low a power and high bandwidth way as possible.



The first pic he shows in the article is attempting to show that Vertical stacking of various chips with the memory on top of the processor, that is Vertical stacking, it is absolutely NOT what Nvidia is using. We've seen pics of Pascal designs with the 4 stacks of memory AROUND the gpu, not on top of it. Second part of his sentence, calling it on package, on package means not ON the chip but on the same package, you do this with an interposer.

Almost no one has done this yet, it's barely suitable(as yet) for extremely low power processors, it is completely unsuitable for high power processors. It reduces cooling, has significantly worse yield implications(and therefore cost) than using an interposer and offers no particular advantage for discrete gpus. In a ultra small device, sure, we're talking watches and wearables, even phones don't really need it, though they'll go that way.




You can't connect HBM to a gpu without the HBM and GPU being on the interposer, and once they are both on the interposer they are on the same package.

Fud is so utterly stupid and shows such a completely fundamental misunderstanding of the technology it's painful to read. You can safely discount the entire article because it's complete rubbish start to finish, he has zero understanding of the actual technologies involved.

As soon as I posted the article I wondered how long it would take to get a reply out of you.

 

[Kaapstad]

So in theory this means the VRAM limit will be harder to top out than with standard GDDR5 given it's high speed yes?

No it will be the same, 4gb is 4gb unless it's on a GTX 970.

 

[Kaapstad]

Fud has been at best notoriously unreliable and at worst a laughing stock for the many years I've been on and off interested in hardware trends. Not that rumour sites particularly offend me.

Fudzilla are not that good.

 

[Kaapstad]

Sure this is a last gasp and end of the road for DDR5 no one is saying anything different but its not as obsolete just yet as some people make out.

I am sure if the GTX 980 is anything to go by the DDR5 on the Maxwell Titan will perform to a very high level with very high bandwidth.

 

[Kaapstad]

If any of the current rumors regarding new cards from Nvidia and AMD have any shred of truth, alongside DX12 im wondering if i should just keep my 290 for now

DX12 will give the 290 a new lease of life in games that are coded for DX12

The 380X if it is a rebadged faster 290 does not appeal to me at all

If AMD hold off the 390X til late in the year, then having owned a 290 since release, i can happily wait a few more months AFTER the 390x and see what Nvidia come out with the Pascal (yes i know this is 2016, i can wait).

So basically i think im pinning my hopes on 390X or 395X2 being a superbeast, especially if DX12 gives the perrformance i think it might on my 290 for games designed with it, otherwise its going to be Nvidia newest tech. Tbh im at the point where i may just wait for the next die shrink to bother upgrading?

Lots of questions with no real answers i guess until we see a) AMD new batch of cards specs b) DX12 in realworld use and i guess maybe even c) something new from Nvidia?

All your questions have the same answer really,

Wait until your games no longer run the way you would like them to and then it will be upgrade time.

 

[Kaapstad]

Putting wild speculation aside for a sec, we need to see what actually shows up in retail and how they perform in legit reviews. We can't condemn a product that hasn't yet been released. By all means condemn the GTX 970 and R9 285 they are released and are pants etc (For different reasons), but at least give AMD a chance to release this new HBM card first before putting the boot in.

I suspect there could be problems as it is new tech and it may take a while to iron them out.

 

[Kaapstad]

Imagine VRam is water in a tank, the bandwidth is the size of the pipe used to drain water out on the tank and fill it back up.

The bigger the pipe the quicker it can be filled and emptied.

The problem comes when you have more water than you have space for in the tank. Then it does not matter how quickly you can fill or empty the tank as it is still going to overflow.