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AMD Mullins and Beema official review thread

CAT-THE-FIFTH

CAT-THE-FIFTH

CAT-THE-FIFTH

Caporegime
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I read the andandtech one, there seems to be a running theme with recent AMD low power chips.
They perform better than the competition, but the power usage they're coming in makes the results meaningless as they wouldn't get considered for the market they're aimed at.
You'd want half that 4.5w unless you're talking about going for the higher end just below the i5 tablets.
 
However, these products could quite very easily be considered for a steam streaming NUC box.

If the price wasn't ridiculous, and tablets actually exist, the 4.5w can have a place, but it's performance advantage is kind of moot given the tasks you'd use it for, you can't really natively game on it, even though it's like double baytrail almost for gpu.

Thinking about it some more, these could actually fill in its own gap in the market, between those who don't want arm or lower powered atom tablets, but don't want full blown ultrabook type tablets.
If they can passively cool it, then perhaps it could be a winner.

If these actually arrive in shops, they could be viable.
So here's hoping.

See, at the moment, you can get a 1080p baytrail tablet for 250 quid, that really is a tiny sum of money.


So, you could use steam streaming at 1080p on these atoms, limited to say 50mbps, I'm unsure how they would handle 100mbps.

This tablet could perhaps handle 1080p at 100mbps, so arguably better IQ. But the price would have to be around ~500, it would have to command good build quality and a 1080p screen, but I can't see them happening.

But at 500 quid, it could be very good.
 
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Martini1991 said:
I read the andandtech one, there seems to be a running theme with recent AMD low power chips.
They perform better than the competition, but the power usage they're coming in makes the results meaningless as they wouldn't get considered for the market they're aimed at.
You'd want half that 4.5w unless you're talking about going for the higher end just below the i5 tablets.
Click to expand...

Their power usage is fine, and Temash/Kabini power usage is very good. There have been a spate of reviews lately retesting Kabini with a lower power PSU and they are on par/ahead of bay trail in power usage.

The issue is a 400-500W psu with a 25W tdp isn't efficient. Reviews are showing along the lines of dropping from 25W idle for the system to 12W moving from a 400W psu to a 65W laptop power adaptor.

Power usage is good but needs to get better, but this is the same curve pretty much every company is on. Intel has had more generations of chips, desktop and mobile, over the past 5-6 years. AMD is making the same power adjustments effectively per generation, maybe on a steeper curve, but with the products more spread out. Since the reorganisation these architecture steps are becoming more frequent. Kabini to Puma is architecturally small but power management features a huge jump and really very close together.

It's a great chip, the only reason that AMD isn't getting more tablet and lower end laptop wins is simple, contra revenue.

AMD offers a great chip at $20, Intel offers a slower, similar power usage chip at $40 book price..... but offers the company a million chips with $35 off...... end of story.

Intel is happy making $1billion losses PER QUARTER to get every tablet win out there for x86 chips. it's completely dodgy and completely ridiculous and Intel have been getting away with it one way or another for two decades.


I think at this stage AMD needs to put the money in and make itself a Tegra Note style device and find some ways to make it the only product to buy. Subsidise it, not take a loss but accept very little in profit. Make it have killer features, make a PS4 tie in, advertise on PS4 store, have some PS4 + tablet bundles in Amazon, make a second screen ap for PS4 + amd tablet only. I genuinely don't know if PS4 does a second screen stuff or only works with Vita. If only Vita then if they make the only tablet that works a completely different size and price range then it shouldn't take away from vita sales at all.

AMd is fighting situations where say Dell were making AMD based computers, but they basically barely or don't advertise them on their website. Multiple stories that if you phone them up and ask for AMD only devices you would get told of multiple products not on the website, for years. AMD had 3-4 really great value and well made lenovo laptops with Kabini in, but it was almost impossible to find the few AMD devices over the page full of Intel adverts for laptops with Intel chips.

Intel, outside of chip subsidies just pays out billions in marketing, so that major laptop makers who make some great AMD products get drowned out through Intel adverts on their store pages.

It's not remotely a fair fight on product vs product or price vs price.

If Intel has the better chip like a i5/i7, they price it up and use marketing to stop people seeing cheaper alternatives. If they have a similar/worse chip(atoms) then they subsidies the chips directly and making AMD chips a bad choice financially. AMD can't win either fight and can't afford the lawsuit they should be filing as Intel can just, like last time, drag it on for years costing 100's of millions, billions if it takes long enough.
 
Martini1991 said:
I read the andandtech one, there seems to be a running theme with recent AMD low power chips.
They perform better than the competition, but the power usage they're coming in makes the results meaningless as they wouldn't get considered for the market they're aimed at.
You'd want half that 4.5w unless you're talking about going for the higher end just below the i5 tablets.
Click to expand...

The Intel parts are quoting SDP not TDP.

Mullins/Beema is a 4.5W TDP part,and funnily enough for parts like the Z3470D Intel states no TDP.

The Z3470D is a 2W SDP part and the A10 Micro-6700T is a 2.8W SDP part.

Considering Intel is using a low power version of their 22NM process with Finfets and AMD is using a normal GF 28NM process,Atom is not that impressive it seems.

Also,since the PS4 and XBox One are going to be made at GF,it might indicate they might use the updated cores at some point.
 
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It's irrelevant to the end customer (Which is what matters) how and why something is the way it is (The fact that AMD can change the tide around in the future is great)
If Intel never did what they do, Windows tablets would be an absolute none starter, them subsiding these chips, helps out the customer to to end because otherwise these products just wouldn't exist at the prices they do.

And don't forget Microsoft have now written off Windows costs for Windows tablets at 8" and lower.

EDIT : Just saw the hot hardware review, which has the Z3770, it puts up a MUCH better fight in CPU benchmarks (Still slower)
 
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Martini1991 said:
It's irrelevant to the end customer (Which is what matters) how and why something is the way it is (The fact that AMD can change the tide around in the future is great)
If Intel never did what they do, Windows tablets would be an absolute none starter, them subsiding these chips, helps out the customer to to end because otherwise these products just wouldn't exist at the prices they do.

And don't forget Microsoft have now written off Windows costs for Windows tablets at 8" and lower.

EDIT : Just saw the hot hardware review, which has the Z3770, it puts up a MUCH better fight in CPU benchmarks (Still slower)
Click to expand...

The Z3770 is slower than the A10 Micro-6700T.

In the lightly threaded CB and LAME benchmarks the AMD CPU is faster. In CB 11.5 there is a nearly 40% advantage for the AMD APU for the single threaded benchmark.

In CPU performance in both lightly threaded and multi threaded benchmarks,it seems to be close to a Core i3 2377M but with less than 1/3 the TDP,and the Intel socket 1155 and 1150 CPUs are not SOCs either,meaning power consumption will be much higher,and those chips are significantly larger even excluding the chipset.
 
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Don't get me wrong, the performance figures seem very impressive, certainly faster than Baytrail.

But if it can't get put into tablets at near the same price point (Or at all, as AMD tablets seem to be nigh on none existent) it's kinda all for nothing.

AMD also release this stuff at weird times, as before any product comes about, Intels successor is literally around the corner.

If AMD could show me a 500 quid, well designed 1080p tablet Windows 8.1 right now with one of these, I'd buy it, but it's not happening.
 
Martini1991 said:
Don't get me wrong, the performance figures seem very impressive, certainly faster than Baytrail.

But if it can't get put into tablets at near the same price point (Or at all, as AMD tablets seem to be nigh on none existent) it's kinda all for nothing.

AMD also release this stuff at weird times, as before any product comes about, Intels successor is literally around the corner.

If AMD could show me a 500 quid, well designed 1080p tablet Windows 8.1 right now with one of these, I'd buy it, but it's not happening.
Click to expand...

Its not really round the corner,as current Bay Trail has at least six months more or even longer. It took a while of BT tablets to actually hit decent retail ability too. I suspect end of the year for the new one to be released or even early next year for full retail availability. Intel already made a $900+ million loss this quarter with the Atom division.

Plus in the low cost laptop segment,Intel will still be pedding the cheaper to make 22NM Atoms,and AMD already had a better solution for those. It now has an even bigger improvement with massive reductions in TDP,meaning much better battery life.

Performance in lightly threaded and multi-threaded benchmarks is getting to SB ULV levels,which means better or comparable performance overallwhen compared to all those BT and Haswell Celerons in the cheap £250 to £350 laptops. Intel is not subsidising those AFAIK.

Plus since Mullins/Beema are SOCs the laptop mainboards and cooling will be cheaper to implement.

That means Intel has competition in both areas now.
 
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Baytrail tab's were available straight away (For 8.1), Amazon have the T100 down as October the 5th.

Sure, Intel showed it off, and then it took a while, but they showed it off quickly after Clovertrail tablets started showing up.

You'd expect Intels Cherry something to be here by the October, that's only 5 months off, and I'd be surprised to see any AMD tablet stuff this half of the year, so you're talking like 3 months from AMD tablet launch to Cherry launch.

So that's around the corner to me.

Either way, customers will buy what they buy, chances are it won't be a choice, because they simply won't see AMD tablets, like I say, give me an AMD tablet, 1080p at 500 quid and I'll buy it.

Funnily enough, I've never owned an Intel tablet, I have however owned an AMD one and 2 Nvidia ones ; Windows tablets.

Even though the Intel ones are priced brilliantly, I want build quality.

I'll be buying Microsofts Surface 3, but the chances are it's another Tegra, which is a shame, I'd much rather take an X86 chip, but nothing offers the Surface build quality or style for the price, and that's what's missing.

Given me a Surface with an AMD SOC for 500 and I'd buy it, but it's not happening.
 
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Martini1991 said:
Baytrail tab's were available straight away (For 8.1), Amazon have the T100 down as October the 5th.

Sure, Intel showed it off, and then it took a while, but they showed it off quickly after Clovertrail tablets started showing up.

You'd expect Intels Cherry something to be here by the October, that's only 5 months off, and I'd be surprised to see any AMD tablet stuff this half of the year, so you're talking like 3 months from AMD tablet launch to Cherry launch.

So that's around the corner to me.

Either way, customers will buy what they buy, chances are it won't be a choice, because they simply won't see AMD tablets, like I say, give me an AMD tablet, 1080p at 500 quid and I'll buy it.

Funnily enough, I've never owned an Intel tablet, I have however owned an AMD one and 2 Nvidia ones ; Windows tablets.

Even though the Intel ones are priced brilliantly, I want build quality.

I'll be buying Microsofts Surface 3, but the chances are it's another Tegra, which is a shame, I'd much rather take an X86 chip, but nothing offers the Surface build quality or style for the price, and that's what's missing.

Given me a Surface with an AMD SOC for 500 and I'd buy it, but it's not happening.
Click to expand...

Yet you are forgetting that new Atom debuted on an old process node where a lot of costs had already been amortised by high volume IB and Hawell based chips. There is no guarantee you will see 14NM Atom in any sort of volume in October. We have no clue how good yields are,or how much it will cost.

If anything I expect more of the 14NM capacity to be for Broadwell,and Atom rollout depending on how much of the older one still needs to be shifted.

Plus the T100 was only really available in small quantities for quite a while and even then it was a much lower clocked verision.

It still does not change the fact that in the low cost laptop and netbook market,the Intel chips are not going to be very competitive until next year at least. Intel is not going to debut their latest process nodes or do contra-revenue for that segment.

That segment is still quite important in many markets like Asia for example which is huge.
 
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The availability of the 14nm chips is going to depend on how willing Intel are to throw money away. Ideally they'd want 14nm for their server chips firstly, because they sell for 50x the price of the low power chips, which are already sold at a loss.
 
I'd be unsurprised to see Microsoft shot money at Intel, they need what Intel doing with these low powered chips with their subsided costs to push windows tablets, they should do the same thing with amd really, the more cheap windows tablets, the better.
 
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