AMD on dynamic refresh rates with Project Freesync

[Reaper 392]

The only question I had regarding freesync is about what andybird said on one of the other threads, and this updated FAQ has done nothing to answer it.

AMD's solution requires the GPU to guess how long the current frame is going to take to render, which it then sends with the last frame to tell the monitor how long to hold that frame for
Nvidia's solution lets the monitor hold the frame by itself and update when the new frame is actually ready
If AMD's "guess" is wrong then you either get unneccesary lag, or a stutter, they are also saying it takes up gpu time to generate the guess, so it will also impact frame rate, which is probably why they arent rolling it out to previous gens

Basically, if someone could find out from AMD if this is really the case or not i would be very interested to hear about it, since it sounds like a very odd way of doing things

 

[bru]

Nvidia will support this as going forward over the years just about all monitors will have this feature compared to a select few with a G-Sync module. I think the bigger question will be whether Nvidia continue on with G-Sync. If G-Sync is better they may well do so.

Interesting take on things, just one question, seeing as this has been in the standard for EDP since 2009 and not many laptop manufacturers have implemented it, what makes you think that all of a sudden all monitor manufacturers will use it now?
I'm not saying they wont, just saying they don't have too.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Interesting take on things, just one question, seeing as this has been in the standard for EDP since 2009 and not many laptop manufacturers have implemented it, what makes you think that all of a sudden all monitor manufacturers will use it now?
I'm not saying they wont, just saying they don't have too.

I believe it's because it's now a standard so if they want to use display port on there monitors then going forward all the monitors should have the hardware/software. This was not the case until recently when the new standard was pushed through. With every new monitor line that comes with display port then more and more monitors will be open to freesync. That's my take but i am sure there's more qualified people to put things better. I don't think laptops are used to much for pure gaming and with this in mind probably don't drive forward gaming technology. A decent gaming laptop costs far to much in comparison to a similar spec pc.

 

[Rusty0611]

FreeSync still requires a hardware solution though (i.e. a GPU one). I don't think it's likely nVidia will adopt this as they will just push their own G-Sync solution.

 

[bru]

I believe it's because it's now a standard so if they want to use display port on there monitors then going forward all the monitors should have the hardware/software. This was not the case until recently when the new standard was pushed through. With every new monitor line that comes with display port then more and more monitors will be open to freesync. That's my take but i am sure there's more qualified people to put things better. I don't think laptops are used to much for pure gaming and with this in mind probably don't drive forward gaming technology. A decent gaming laptop costs far to much in comparison to a similar spec pc.

I think you misunderstood me, all I was saying is that adaptive sync as it has now been called has been part of the edp vesa standard since 2009 and yet there are not that many laptops that use it, so the same 'could' happen with desktop monitors and the new 12.a that includes Adaptive Sync.


If you were a gaming monitor maker would you redesign the scalar in your monitor just so it could use a gaming feature that is only on 5 cards in AMD's range and a few APU's?
Now of course that will change in future, as I would assume that all future AMD cards will be fully compatible for both gaming and video.

G-Sync is listed as working on 13 of Nvidia's cards plus the Titan black as that is missing off of the list for some reason.
So in relation to your post I do think that Nvidia are more likely to continue with G-Sync than not.

 

[andybird123]

FreeSync still requires a hardware solution though (i.e. a GPU one). I don't think it's likely nVidia will adopt this as they will just push their own G-Sync solution.

I don't buy it personally, the 290x et al were released in October 2013, must have been taped out at least 6 months before that, gsync was also announced in October 2013... Freesync was first announced / demo'd in January 2014, it was clearly a knee jerk response to gsync and cobbled together at the last minute, you are not telling me that Amd put hardware specifically for freesync in to their hardware a year ago and then did absolutely nothing to advertise an upcoming feature and did nothing to work with monitor makers or Vesa to get this up and running

I dont buy it, that there is hardware in the 290 for freesync that simply doesnt exist in the 7970, it is clearly marketting spin to get people to upgrade, they demo'd it on a laptop ffs, with a 7850 grade card, how very open and pro consumer of them, they said at CES that it used hardware that existed in Amd cards since the 6*** series, now a sudden back track

 

[TheRealDeal]

I think you misunderstood me, all I was saying is that adaptive sync as it has now been called has been part of the edp vesa standard since 2009 and yet there are not that many laptops that use it, so the same 'could' happen with desktop monitors and the new 12.a that includes Adaptive Sync.


If you were a gaming monitor maker would you redesign the scalar in your monitor just so it could use a gaming feature that is only on 5 cards in AMD's range and a few APU's?
Now of course that will change in future, as I would assume that all future AMD cards will be fully compatible for both gaming and video.

G-Sync is listed as working on 13 of Nvidia's cards plus the Titan black as that is missing off of the list for some reason.
So in relation to your post I do think that Nvidia are more likely to continue with G-Sync than not.

Amd showed how easy it was to get freesync as they were calling it at the time working on a Laptop. I guess if AMD had pushed out this software in there mobile catalysts mobile users could have been using it for years. Most technologies for PC gaming are driven by the PC and not the Laptop.

The way i see it going is more and more Monitors coming with the new standard until just about all monitors support adaptive sync where as G-Sync is still a gimmick in only select models. With this in mind Nvidia would be stupid not to support it. If the G-Sync monitor still carries say a £100 premium over the standard adaptive sync monitor then i see G-Sync losing out.

Basically Adaptive sync monitors with a huge selection v G-Sync with a limited Selection. If Nvidia don't jump onboard they may drive people to AMD just for the Adaptive Sync feature. If G-Sync is still the better technology then Nvidia could support both which i feel would be to there benefit. It's not like this would benefit AMD in anyway.

 

[Rusty0611]

I don't buy it personally, the 290x et al were released in October 2013, must have been taped out at least 6 months before that, gsync was also announced in October 2013... Freesync was first announced / demo'd in January 2014, it was clearly a knee jerk response to gsync and cobbled together at the last minute, you are not telling me that Amd put hardware specifically for freesync in to their hardware a year ago and then did absolutely nothing to advertise an upcoming feature and did nothing to work with monitor makers or Vesa to get this up and running

I dont buy it, that there is hardware in the 290 for freesync that simply doesnt exist in the 7970, it is clearly marketting spin to get people to upgrade, they demo'd it on a laptop ffs, with a 7850 grade card, how very open and pro consumer of them, they said at CES that it used hardware that existed in Amd cards since the 6*** series, now a sudden back track

I was just going on what they're saying themselves but I agree in what you said in your second paragraph.

God only knows what is ACTUALLY the case.

 

[bru]

I don't buy it personally, the 290x et al were released in October 2013, must have been taped out at least 6 months before that, gsync was also announced in October 2013... Freesync was first announced / demo'd in January 2014, it was clearly a knee jerk response to gsync and cobbled together at the last minute, you are not telling me that Amd put hardware specifically for freesync in to their hardware a year ago and then did absolutely nothing to advertise an upcoming feature and did nothing to work with monitor makers or Vesa to get this up and running

I dont buy it, that there is hardware in the 290 for freesync that simply doesnt exist in the 7970, it is clearly marketting spin to get people to upgrade, they demo'd it on a laptop ffs, with a 7850 grade card, how very open and pro consumer of them, they said at CES that it used hardware that existed in Amd cards since the 6*** series, now a sudden back track

They haven't backtracked on anything, the demo was on Toshiba satellite click laptops which have kabini APu's which as listed in the opening posters article are fully compatible with freeSync for video and gaming.

The Satellite Click in question uses AMD’s low cost Kabini APU, which already has the requisite hardware to support variable VBLANK and thus variable display refresh rates (Kaveri as well as AMD's latest GPUs should support it as well)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014

 

[LambChop]

6-12 months lol, in your dreams. Try and not have the farcical Mantle-esq release and thanks to nVidia if this ever see's the light of day for g-sync.

 

[andybird123]

They haven't backtracked on anything, the demo was on Toshiba satellite click laptops which have kabini APu's which as listed in the opening posters article are fully compatible with freeSync for video and gaming.

I stand corrected, though similarly, a product from May 2013, which must have been planned and designed long before that - my comment on back tracking was aimed at the article that was posted in January that had an interview with Koduri of AMD where he said the hardware freesync needed was included from the 5 or 6 series (I forget exactly, will look it up later)

I was just going on what they're saying themselves but I agree in what you said in your second paragraph.

God only knows what is ACTUALLY the case.

yes, wasn't having a pop at you, but seeing what you wrote suddenly made me think that it didn't make much sense to include hardware for a specific feature that wasn't even dreamed up till at least a year if not more since it was designed

"free"sync is sounding less and less free, now it has been confirmed that the monitors require new hardware, and it also sounds like most people - even ones already with AMD cards - are going to need new GPU's too