An update on job situation

413x

413x

413x

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A few threads of mine cluttering up the forum. I apologise. Wrapping them all. Up now.

So I declined the first consultant job. That was 42.5. I declined it mainly because that was a lower salary than I was on previous and they wouldn't negotiate higher at all.
42k, 3pc pension, 2k bonus


But I've decided to take another.
Its a slightly bigger consultancy growing rapidly.
50k, 14pc bonus, 5pc pension, healthcare

Its been a tough choice between this and contract but I think I need a job I can try out consultancy, improve my skills and get some certification.



So although it's monetarily less than the contract I hope it gears me up for contracting down the line. It's also taken me from 44k to 50k+bonus+healthcare+10k redundancy pay (banked with new job)

Not sure it's the right choice to take the perm over holding out for a contract, but I do have some gaps that may present themselves going straight to contract.
 
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413x said:
Not sure it's the right choice to take the perm over holding out for a contract, but I do have some gaps that may present themselves going straight to contract.
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Mate, it's a great choice. Regardless of the what if this and that, you can totally do that later. Right now you've gone from redundant for Christmas, to a 6k pay rise, 14% bonus and no stress for the holidays with 10k in the bank?! I'd say it's a massive, massive win. Congratulations.
 
Thanks all. Yeah it's a great company. Seems to be growing year on year for last 4+ years in terms of head count and revenue. So who knows where it will go.



Honestly I've had so many interviews in last 2 weeks. Probably 9. From redundancy to. Job accepted in 3 weeks and 4 weeks unemployed.

Couldn't have gone much better!

Thanks for all the help. Particularly with the choice to take the early redundancy option! Without that I'd still be sitting there now twiddling my thumbs.


Its crazy to think 4 years ago I was on 27k with no bonus or benefits
 
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Congratulations, you can always contract later if you fancy it, the additional consulting experience will perhaps make it a less risky proposition too.

Also well done for holding out, taking the old job vs this one may well have set you back a year in terms of pay etc..
 
Have the contract now. Should. I query the clauses:


"we may require you to work unpaid overtime when authorised"

And

"we reserve the right to alter your working hours"



I've not had this before. But may come as standard in jobs of this nature?
By the wording could they change hours to make you come in on weekends for example? Obviously this is extreme. But technically it sounds like they can?


Not sure if there's any point in raising it. As
A) is I need a job
B) I doubt they'd flex on something like this
C) they could just pull the offer
 
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Sounds like standard consulting firm contract wording. You'll often be expected to work the hours of the client versus the hours of the firm, or to get a job done you'll be expected to work off the clock beyond 5pm. Weekends potentially if the work demands it.

I wouldn't worry, nobody really wants to work beyond 8/9hours a day and weekends. Manage scope and work hard and it'll be all good.
 
dLockers said:
Sounds like standard consulting firm contract wording. You'll often be expected to work the hours of the client versus the hours of the firm, or to get a job done you'll be expected to work off the clock beyond 5pm. Weekends potentially if the work demands it.

I wouldn't worry, nobody really wants to work beyond 8/9hours a day and weekends. Manage scope and work hard and it'll be all good.
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Thought it might be standard consultancy stuff. Covering travel, etc.

For sure if weekend work became common I would not be happy. But the MD said (verbally) this is basically never unless it's your own fault. Which is fair enough.
 
413x said:
Thought it might be standard consultancy stuff. Covering travel, etc.

For sure if weekend work became common I would not be happy. But the MD said (verbally) this is basically never unless it's your own fault. Which is fair enough.
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I mean you're going to establish a pattern fo work, speak to a lawyer if you want to be sure but I doubt they can just get you to say suddenly work a 6 day week for the next year etc..

Occasionally coming in on a Saturday might be a thing, I worked at a tech firm which had a consultancy arm though we split the external consultancy stuff with the internal SaaS/Managed services stuff, some of those guys occasionally came in at the weekends for DR things etc..(that would typically result in a day in lieu) and the ops/support guys who worked for that team did shift work/on call.

The consultants who'd go to client sites often had to travel internationally so may have lost say a Sunday flying out to a client... though if you're married/have kids then less of an issue, they'd tend to keep you in Europe and fly you out early Monday morning/fly back Friday afternoon, one guy I know did that for a year, he'd have a half day on Friday + late start Monday and work longer hours at the client site Tuesday-Thursday.

He ended up with so many airline and hotel points he's not going to need to pay for a holiday for a very long time; he also got upgraded to a suite at the hotel he was staying in and eventually they just told him it was fine to keep his stuff there (often in the same room or sometimes packed and put in storage) so he didn't need to lug a suitcase back and forth.

You mentioned Microsoft partner stuff, I don't really know what that is but I guess if it is more generic tech consultancy work then you perhaps won't be flying overseas as there are local alternatives offering the same, perhaps you'd be getting an early flight or overnight train to Scotland though?
 
413x said:
Have the contract now. Should. I query the clauses:


"we may require you to work unpaid overtime when authorised"

And

"we reserve the right to alter your working hours"



I've not had this before. But may come as standard in jobs of this nature?
By the wording could they change hours to make you come in on weekends for example? Obviously this is extreme. But technically it sounds like they can?


Not sure if there's any point in raising it. As
A) is I need a job
B) I doubt they'd flex on something like this
C) they could just pull the offer
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You can just quit if they start asking you to work too much overtime.

Just be aware that having this in the contract, means that they more than likely will be asking to work unpaid overtime at some point.
 
I don't really understand "overtime" in the context of a salaried employee with an annual individual pay review and bonus, it's quite typical for contracts to say you're contracted to work 37.5 or 40 hours a week but for the norm to perhaps be a bit more than that, it's easy enough to just ask what the general expectations are re: working hours, travel etc.. at interview.

IMO "overtime" is something that applies more to people who are paid hourly or perhaps people in vocations with set salary bands etc. if things are a bit more rigid then, of course, you want the extra payment explicitly for the extra time put in relative to peers on the same hourly rate or same pay band etc.

But otherwise, if you've put in the hours, been more productive etc.. then that's your argument for a bigger bonus, bigger pay rise etc.. the latter is cumulative; the additional pay rise affects subsequent years too, that's way better than just getting a bit extra in a given month for some specific hours worked.

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The only real relevance I can see for the actual contracted hours (in the case of a salaried professional with bonus + individually negotiated pay) over the norm for the team/company is if you're in dispute with the company and/or in the process of leaving... say you're in your notice period or you're being made redundant and you've decided you'll just work your contracted hours, there is no future bonus or pay rise to put in additional work for and you've decided you're not leaving the door open for a potential return so... if they want to try and get more out of you in your last month or last 3 months then they'll either need to pay you extra for it in the form of an ad hoc bonus/incentive (meet these targets before you leave for £XX-Xk) or suck it up and realise that's all they're getting out of you in your last weeks and plan accordingly.
 
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dowie said:
I don't really understand "overtime" in the context of a salaried employee with an annual individual pay review and bonus, it's quite typical for contracts to say you're contracted to work 37.5 or 40 hours a week but for the norm to perhaps be a bit more than that, it's easy enough to just ask what the general expectations are re: working hours, travel etc.. at interview.
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In consulting it can be a thing because you are salaried but you track hours billed. Come crunch time you might be working 12 hour days for a week or two before a major delivery date.

Then those hours are overtime for billing purposes but you might not see the money from it, but it counts towards your utilization target at year end if you have over 100% you will get a bigger bonus or if your on the bench for a while you have a bit of a buffer
 
mattx4 said:
In consulting it can be a thing because you are salaried but you track hours billed. Come crunch time you might be working 12 hour days for a week or two before a major delivery date.

Then those hours are overtime for billing purposes but you might not see the money from it, but it counts towards your utilization target at year end if you have over 100% you will get a bigger bonus or if your on the bench for a while you have a bit of a buffer
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I'm well aware of billable hours, we're talking about the employee here, the revenue you bring in is your argument for a bonus/pay rise is the point I'm making.

Also, those hours aren't necessarily "overtime" for billing purposes, I've not heard of that ever being a thing from a vendor or consultancy perspective, if you're on a client site then meh, just log your hours... if you're at a vendor and working on things for multiple clients then how can any given hours be "overtime"?

If you work 6 hours on project 1 for client A, and 3 hours on project 2 for client B and 1 hour on project 3 for client C - which hours are "overtime"? It makes no sense IMO, they're just billable hours, the client doesn't care what other work you did that day, they're just paying for the work you did for them and an hour of billable work is at a set rate.
 
413x said:
Have the contract now. Should. I query the clauses:


"we may require you to work unpaid overtime when authorised"

And

"we reserve the right to alter your working hours"



I've not had this before. But may come as standard in jobs of this nature?
By the wording could they change hours to make you come in on weekends for example? Obviously this is extreme. But technically it sounds like they can?


Not sure if there's any point in raising it. As
A) is I need a job
B) I doubt they'd flex on something like this
C) they could just pull the offer
Click to expand...
Don't overthink it, it's standard, you are now at the beck and call of the clients.

It never works out that way though unless, like your boss said, it's your own fault and you need to put some hours in to catch up.
 
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