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Anandtech: The RV870 Story: AMD Showing up to the Fight

Soldato
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http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3740&p=1

Interesting article about rv870 development...

Final Words
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Unlike a product review, there’s very little I can do to conclude here. There’s no buying recommendation, no performance to summarize. Even as an analytical piece there’s not much for me to conclude based on what I’ve learned at this point. When I wrote The RV770 Story I was convinced that ATI had embraced a new, refocused approach to GPU design, only to learn that they nearly threw out all of the learnings with the RV870.

The Northern Islands GPUs, due out later this year, were surely designed before anyone knew how RV870 would play out. Much less whether or not Fermi/GF100 would be this late.



I’m not sure any of what we’ve seen thus far in the history leading up to the RV770 or RV870 can tell us what we should expect from Northern Islands. While we can’t conclude about ATI’s future products, I do believe I have learned a considerable amount about how AMD’s graphics division works.

Carrell told me that the process of doing a product is not a logical process. There's logic in it, but it's not a logical process. It's an argumentative process. Not in the sense of having conflicts, but rather developing new data when the data isn't all there. When companies like AMD and NVIDIA do a product the engineers don't know all of the answers, and the knowledge they do have isn't binary - it's probability, it's weight, it's guesses. Sometimes they guess right, and sometimes they guess very wrong. The best they can do is to all weigh in with their individual experiences and together come up with the best group of guesses to implement. Over the years it seems that ATI has learned to, as much as possible, have all members of its team bought in to the product they're building.

The graphics team’s dedication and experience in jumping to new process technologies seems to have paid off with this generation. The move from TSMC to Global Foundries will surely challenge them once more. It’s not all about process technology though. The team’s focus on schedule and execution was a much needed addition to the company’s repertoire.

Carrell Killebrew helped turn ATI from a traditional GPU company with a poor track record, to one that could be known for its execution. The past three product generations have been executed extremely well. Regardless of whether you're an AMD, Intel or NVIDIA fan, you must give credit where it's due. The past couple of years have shown us a dramatic turn around from the graphics group at AMD. To go from the shakiness of the R500 and R600 GPUs to solidly executing on the RV670, 770 and 870 year after year is praiseworthy. I almost wonder if AMD’s CPU team could learn from the graphics group's execution. I do hope that along with the ATI acquisition came the open mindedness to learn from one another.
 
From what you read there, the majority of problems would be nervousness behind the scenes and while waiting on the 4870 to launch too many people not having full faith in the small core design philosophy.

The only thing I disagree with is their conclusion that AMD delayed marginally to make a smaller core and this somehow turns into reasoning to deduce Nvidia did so and went the other way.

The only problem with that is, Nvidia didn't change their design, the first version taped out in enough time to launch around the same time as the 5870, if it didn't new two full respins. They didn't change the design which caused a 6 month delay, a failed design that couldn't be made caused the delay, well it caused THAT delay. If it was 3 months later than they wanted at that stage because of other changes is a different matter.

I'd guess the several things eluded to in regards to TSMC and reason that even at the same die size as the 4870 it would never be the same cost, would be mostly to do with a severely bashing of TSMC and their complete inability to get anything working right or on time, which isn't something you want to publically say while you still rely 100% on them for production.

I wouldn't be surprised for those stories to be public knowledge after AMD are switched to Glo Fo.

I don't think the rv870 would have been "that" much better if it was designed as a smaller core from the start, as the main things weren't scaled back, it would be very interesting to see what was actually removed, in a few years they might tell us in a similar type interview.


The success of the 4870, and the success of the 5870 after it was shrunk should leave most people there with no doubt big cores are a no go and future designs won't be flip flopping between design idea's until very late in the day.


The security issues are the most enlightening, yet not altogether surprising thing involved.

Its a bit insane when you see some of the main guys who switch between Intel/AMD/Nvidia every couple years, and what idea's they unofficially take with them.

It should also explain to a lot of people why not all functions are perfect out of the box and take time to tweak. If you tell people to early, and they start working with game dev's on the idea's too early it can give the other guys a chance to implement a feature for launch.
 
Is there anyone Nvidia can possibly turn to other than TSMC? I would have thought there would have been other competing plants that produce chips.
 
LoL I don't think AMD are going to be fabbing Nvidia's chips for them!

If anything, I would have thought they'd love it.

Any add in graphics card sold would result in profit for them, it's a win win situation providing ATi graphics cards continue to sell they way they currently are.

If anything, I think nVidia would keep away due to the inevitable butthurt they'd feel from the situation.
 
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