Another religious debate...Lilith

RobotXander

RobotXander

RobotXander

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NOTE: Mis spelt Lilith on the thread subject = fail


No big deal, but something I would like a bit of help to clarify something Castiel, perhaps you can help? :)
I got into yet another discussion with my religious mother in law regarding the bible. She is a devout Christian, but also very laid back and not in the least bit preachy with her beliefs. I enjoy challenging her from time to time with my own views, and it's basically a healthy and insightful discussion.

I am an Atheist, but also a former Christian and church goer.
We were talking about womens role in the bible and got on to the subject of Eve, and how she was created from Adams rib etc, but as soon as I said Eve wasn't Adam's first wife, she seemed genuinly shocked and asked me to elaborate.
I then went on to tell her about Lilith, who was created from the same dust as Adam and how she flipped the bird and walked out for not being treated as an equal.
This is the only subject she refuses to give any ground on. Have I got it completley wrong, or what? I wont go into any more details about Lilith but why does she not feature more in the King James Bible?
Was she just written out for being an upity bird/future demon and killer of children?
 
Wikipedia would tell you about the myth in Seconds...

In Jewish folklore, from the 8th–10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira onwards, Lilith becomes Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time and from the same earth as Adam. This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs. The legend was greatly developed during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism.[3] In the 13th Century writings of Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, for example, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she mated with archangel Samael.[4] The resulting Lilith legend is still commonly used as source material in modern Western culture, literature, occultism, fantasy, and horror.

Myth Legend Story, its all make believe anyway.
 
According to the almighty Wiki of the Pedia she is actually in the Dead Sea Scrolls and is a Jewish mythical figure...

In Jewish folklore, from the 8th–10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira onwards, Lilith becomes Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time and from the same earth as Adam. This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs. The legend was greatly developed during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism.[3] In the 13th Century writings of Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, for example, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she mated with archangel Samael.[4] The resulting Lilith legend is still commonly used as source material in modern Western culture, literature, occultism, fantasy, and horror.
Click to expand...

Source

So in this case cause she is not someone who is written from the bible then a Christian isnt really gonna know much about this chick

All I know personally is that she has been in Supernatural a lot and she is mentioned in True Blood as a god to worship lol :shrugs:

Edit: Damn It!!! Beaten to it! Efour2 you speedy mother-hubberd :p
 
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Thats what I'm not clear on. I assumed she was written out of the King James bible because of what she did, and then smeared by the church.

Anyways, it's all fairytales but I just wanted to get things right :) And in this case, it looks like I was wrong....dammit
 
F2MXC.jpg


Here she is. She's been on tv. She must be real
 
That's the problem when you have so many different versions of the Bible.

The first creations were Adam and Eve, not Adam and Lilith or Adam and Steve.

God Bless You.
Amen.:p
 
Efour2 said:
Wikipedia would tell you about the myth in Seconds...

In Jewish folklore, from the 8th–10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira onwards, Lilith becomes Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time and from the same earth as Adam. This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs. The legend was greatly developed during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism.[3] In the 13th Century writings of Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, for example, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she mated with archangel Samael.[4] The resulting Lilith legend is still commonly used as source material in modern Western culture, literature, occultism, fantasy, and horror.

Myth Legend Story, its all make believe anyway.
Click to expand...

The quote seems to imply that the bible is truthful and not fantasy :p

You fail wiki! :D
 
I don't know quite why, but upon reading the title of the thread, I saw the name Lilith, and it sounded like Fraiser was reading the title to me... so so weird... :)
 
Quickly, so forgive the lack of detail. :)

Lillith, like some have mentioned here is largely a reference from Jewish Kabbalic Mysticism rather than a Christian myth or a specific character out of Genesis, particularly in Christianity. The Christian Bible only references Lillith by name in Isaiah and then not in context of being Adam's companion, or the female half of the Androgyne as we can see in Rabbinic Jewish Mysticism.

Lillith was likely one of a number of anthropomorphic demons originating in the Sumerian/Babylonian culture which influenced later mysticism across the region including the Israelites. Lillith is mentioned in the Sumerian companion to the Gilgamesh epic Gilgamesh and the Huluppu tree from the story you can see how she was associated with the Tree of Knowledge and the Serpent in Medieval Jewish Mysticism and the Michaelangelo depiction of the tempter of Eve as a half-woman, half-serpent coiled around the Tree of Knowledge on the Sistine Chapel Ceiling only increased that association with Lilith during the Medieval period.

It is disputed over whether Lillith is Adams first wife (First Eve) as opposed to Adams second wife (Eve) according to the Torah or whether they simply filled a void in understanding caused by the contradictions in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 in Rabbinic Judaism during the early Medieval period. Christianity doesn't have the same contradiction issues as the question of the creation of Man and Woman (Male and Female) is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark and it is clear that as far as Christ was concerned the First Creation Account where Man is synonymous with Mankind and when God created Man he created Man in his own image, Male and Female simultaneously, which contradicts Genesis 2 somewhat, although Christianity makes the distinction that Genesis 1 has a specific chronology where Genesis 2 does not therefore negating much of the inherent contradictions, although there are others...

We could discuss this all night, but effectively as far as your Mother is concerned she is right in that Lilith is not regarded as Adam's First Wife in Mainstream Christianity, that is generally an idea created out of associations with depictions in medieval iconography and modern demonology, however you might want to ask her about the contradiction of the Creation story and why she believes in the creation of Woman from Adam's Rib and how that fits into the first account of Creation in Genesis when Man and Woman were created together?

The NRSV gives us this translation:

Genesis 1:27 said:
26 Then God said, ‘Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’

27 So God created humankind in his image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.’...
Click to expand...

That should give you something to discuss and a starting point to research the evolution of the Lillith myths yourself.
 
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Castiel said:
Originally Posted by Genesis 1:27

26 Then God said, ‘Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’

27 So God created humankind in his image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.’...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Who are "us"?

:p
 
LordSplodge said:
Lilith? Isn't she the spider Goddess of the Drow? In Dungeons and Dragons Forbidden Realms mythos?
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Yes! "Queen of the Demonweb Pits"

Oops, showing my age/sadness/geek credentials ;-)

EDIT: No, sorry, it was Lolth. Still, suspicious eh - can't be a coincidence!
 
StriderX said:
Who are "us"?

:p
Click to expand...

God is plural in this context. It forms part of the basis of the Trinity in Christianity.

It does depend on the interpretation and denomination as to whether it is simply a Majestic Plural or that Moses was elucidating the plurality of God's Powers, Attributes and Personhood. Effectively in any case it implies that God is One and Many, and is about the Essence or Nature of God rather than the singular monotheistic icon. The reference comes for the use of the word Elohim, which is plural.
 
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