Another wedding thread, lens advice and flash

ScarySquirrel · 10 Aug 2009 at 10:48

EDIT: Sorry, this is a really long post

Hi all,

Firstly, I apologise for creating another wedding photography thread, but I have a few specific questions I would like to ask those who are experienced wedding togs.

I am going to a wedding in September which I have been asked to help out with the photos. It is a budget wedding, they have no pro photographer, only me helping and one other guy. I don’t believe there will be any formal shots, all I know is that I will be there when the bride gets ready, during the ceremony, and at the reception. I have been asked to just do what I want as they will be happy with anything I can get.

I am confident in my ability, however I have some questions.

My kit is fairly low end stuff, this is what I have available:

400D (with battery grip which will be a big help for all day shooting)
Canon 50mm 1.8 – I am thinking this will be used quite a lot, especially during the ceremony where I cannot use flash, also during the bride getting ready and doing shots of flowers and place settings etc.
Sigma 17-70 – I don’t actually use this lens very much.
Sigma 150mm macro – I use this for portraits sometimes but I feel it will be too much to lug around and I doubt I would use it!
Sigma 10-20 – Will definitely be taking this
Canon 430EX with cheap eBay diffuser.

Ok, so those are the main bits of kit worth mentioning, now for some questions

1. I am happy to rent a lens, and I am thinking that a Canon 70-200mm L will compliment the 10-20 Sigma and 50mm Canon very well, giving me a chance to get some good candids with some nice bokeh. Also good for the ceremony as I can hang back and it will be good in low light. Any thoughts on this?

2. Flash – As most of you’ll have seen I have been using flash a lot recently, but only off camera, and manually! I don’t know much about ETTL, or about using my flash on my camera. I am probably going to make a homemade bounce card to help soften shadows, or at the very least I’ll be bouncing flash off ceilings/walls etc. But what do I shoot in? I had some tests last night shooting in P and in M and generally they were ok (I was testing on a teddy bear and a Yoshi model though!) but I just felt they looks a little unnatural. I’ll probably do some practice shots with my GF but I just wanted to find out what other wedding togs did, and how and when they used flash?

3. I have been meaning to get a more compact shoulder bag for a while, one that will just carry my body (with lens) plus 2 more lenses. This seems a good excuse to commit, what would you recommend? What do you use?

Thanks in advance.

To make the thread a little more interesting, post your best wedding photo

ScarySquirrel · 10 Aug 2009 at 13:51

ScarySquirrel · 10 Aug 2009 at 14:29

Thanks for the advice Raymond. I love your wedding photography so I was hoping you would post your thoughts. I'll reply to each bit individually though to make it easier

Raymond Lin said:
A few things.....

The 400D, what is it like i low light because half the fight in wedding is against the light. Apart from the part where people are having drinks, a lot of the event are taking place indoors, especially in a church. I was struggling with a 30D on a 2.8 lens.

It's ok, not great. I haven't done much low light photography so I can't really comment.

Second, you really need a lens to cover 24-70 on FF or 17-50 or there about on crop. That is the lens I use most personally, a 70-200 is too long for 90% of the time and a the last wedding I think less than 5% of the photos are taken with it, and i used a 70-200 2.8 IS. 10-20 is way too wide, that's like using the 16-35 on Full Frame, it'll be good for the group shots and get everything internally in a room but useless for portraits or even candids. 17-50 is what you want.

In that case I probably will end up packing the Sigma 17-70.
Thansk for your comments on the 70-200. I'm a little surprised though as many reviews I have read have put it down as a fantastic event/wedding lens. I have a cheap Sigma 70-300 at home which I never use so I'll stick that on tonight to get an idea of the 70-200 range and decide for myself if I feel it will be worth it or not. Thanks for raising the issue though.

If it is, I may rent a decent 17-50 lens if as you say that is what I will most likely use.

As for flash, I put it on manual so I get enough amibent light but I control the Shutter speed so I don't get blurry pics and let ETTL do its thing. It seems to work well, and remember to carry spare batteries.

Good shout on the batteries. I have loads of rechargables so I'll be sure to pack them. Thanks for advice on settings as well, I'll have another play in the coming weeks and get plenty of practice in.

I had the 50/1.8, now the 1.4, and it is a pain in low light without the flash to assist with focusing. It hunts like no tomorrow in low light and you'll miss a LOT of shots with this lens. Also, it is a bit long on the 400D, as no doubt you are planning to use it indoors due to its speed, but i can tell you that when indoors, like a reception, when people dancing, 50mm on crop is way to long, you'll end up with lots of about shoulder shots only, and very little context. Also, i'd forget the monopod and off camera flash, you'll be moving around a lot and a monopod is too cumbersome to carry around.

I really hadn't thought about this. Obviously 1.8 is great in low light, but I hadn't thought of the focussing.

Is it possible to use the flash to help focus but then force it to not fire?

also....you need a spare camera !!!

I really don't. I'm not the wedding photographer, I'm a guest who has some kit and some photographic know how and is just helping out. I'm not investing in a 2nd body when all I'm doing is helping out. 1 body is more than enough for me for now.

Insurance !

Check.

Thanks for all your thoughts and advice.

ScarySquirrel · 10 Aug 2009 at 15:53

Cool, I'll check out the custom function stuff for the flash as that would be a huge help.

By the way, I love your website. I wish I could make something like that for myself!
Good luck for the weeked

ScarySquirrel · 10 Aug 2009 at 16:15

How about the Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 L II USM for that little extra reach and for use in low light?

Too long on a crop sensor?

Bear in mind I'll have the thing for three days, so I'll be squeezing in some portrait work too

ScarySquirrel · 20 Aug 2009 at 10:40

Sweet!!! Managed to secure a 40D on loan from a work mate as well

I've decided I'll be hiring a 24-70L 2.8 and 70-200L IS 2.8.

Reason, I'll have a wide angle covering 10-20mm, 24-70mm covered and then 70-200mm. With the second body it means I can have the 24-70 with flash on one camera and the 70-200mm on the other body for candids (which is what the girl wants most).

This leaves me with

400D with battery grip
40D (not sure if it has battery grip)
430EX
Sigma 10-20
24-70L 2.8
70-200L IS 2.8

I know this is quite light for a wedding, but bear in mind I am just a guest helping out, but it is a great opportunity for me

I've not tried carrying around two camera bodies before but to say I'll feel a little uncomfortable will be an understatement. I really need to get over my confidence issues and I think this is the perfect opportunity.

ScarySquirrel · 20 Aug 2009 at 11:26

Hmmm, you're giving me a lot to think about Raymond, and I do trust your advice as I've seen your results and the fact I know you have experience.

I have read a lot of good things about the 70-200mm for wedding use though, although I do appreciate i'm on a crop sensor. I think it will boil down to what style of photos I want to achieve, and as you said, some head and shoulder shots of a person, or a group of people are what I am after.

I have a week or so to think about it though. One other reason for the 70-200 is that I'll have it for the weekend so I wanted to make the most of it and do some portrait shoots whilst I had it

ScarySquirrel · 20 Aug 2009 at 11:49

Raymond Lin said:
True, its just for me, personally, I get right in there and take the photos. Candids needs context IMO, and portraits less so, depends what the bride want (first and foremost) and what you want.

I've been meaning to do this, but haven't done it yet. I have a Sigma 70-300mm which I never use, but I'll put that on tonight so I can see how the 70-200 range works on the crop.

Thanks for your advice so far Raymond, and it was useful seeing your most recent shots for a bit of inspiration.

Quick question, do you shoot in Aperture priority most of the time?

I am used to having time to fire off a few test shots before getting my final snaps, whereas here I will need to be on the ball all of the time to avoid missing anything.

ScarySquirrel · 20 Aug 2009 at 12:16

gjc10212 said:
Can anyone recommend a hire outlet for the 17-55 f/2.8?

Thanks.

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/canon-ef-s-17-55mm-f28-is-usm-36-p.asp

Thanks again Raymond

ScarySquirrel · 21 Aug 2009 at 09:49

Thanks for the link oly, really nice gallery there. As you go through them one by one you really get a feel for the day, and that is exactly what I want to do.

Quick question, did you use your flash hand held for most photos? If so, how were you controlling it? In ETTL?

Did you use a diffuser and/or bounce the flash a lot?

Thanks

PS. I am feeling like I want to get more 'involved' shots so am tempted to just go with the 10-20 on my 400D and a rented 24-70L on the 40D. This is near enough what Raymond recommended but I think if I ditched the idea of the 70-200, I want want that little extra reach from the 24-70L rather than the 17-55.

Would my flash be better on the wide angle or with the 24-70?

ScarySquirrel · 21 Aug 2009 at 10:38

Thanks mate.

Good point about the 10-20 and not letting enough light in. Hmmm, I need to do some thinking about what I want to achieve and decide on lenses from that.

ScarySquirrel · 21 Aug 2009 at 12:17

Orange Peel said:
I shot a wedding last year using 2 X 350D, Tamron f/2.8 17-50 with a 430EX and a Canon L f/4 70-200.

I mostly used the 17-50 which was great. It was a very bright day and shadows were harsh so I used the 430 (on full auto) and got some great results. The 70-200 too around 15% of the total shots and was mostly used for candids on leaving the church, while everyone is milling around.

I've got another wedding lined up where I'll be using the same kit with the addition of a 40D as the main shooter.

I really need to learn about using the flash controls.

I would be really interested to see the photos if you happen to have them online somewhere?

I played with a 50D in PC World last night and my lord it felt nice, can't wait to try out the 40D properly for a whole day. Will no doubt make me want to upgrade my 400D, which I simply cannot afford.......ever!

ScarySquirrel · 21 Aug 2009 at 12:27

Thanks dude, would be mighty helpful

Do you have a website or Flickr or anything for your other stuff?
I always like seeing what other OcUK'ers are snapping

ScarySquirrel · 21 Aug 2009 at 15:15

Thanks to you both for posting your pictures and for advice.

I am excited and nervous. Raymond, I do see what you mean about the 70-200mm.

OP - Glad you like my Flickr, look forward to seeing yours fill up as you add some more stuff

Ok Raymond, I trust your judgement, so I am going to go with whatever you say, what lens(es) shall I hire? final call.
I'll have the 400D and 40D as mentioned...........GO!

EDIT: Lensesforhire don't have the 24-70 for the 5th September, so I guess that leaves me with the 17-55

Will the limit of 55mm be a bit short for the whole day though?

ScarySquirrel · 21 Aug 2009 at 16:40

Orange Peel said:
I'm hoping to get out and about more so I can further my skills. Just need a model!

Don't suppose you're lovely lady has a twin sister?

Afraid not

Raymond Lin said:
For the 40D, it HAS to be the 17-55 2.8 IS, use the 10-20 when it comes to the group shot or inside disco (if the dance floor is tiny), that is the most important lens, hire which ever other one you like really. I used the 16-35 2.8 L a little bit last week as some internal spaces when filled with people were quite cramped.

Raymond Lin said:
Remember to SMILE !

Nothing worse than seeing the photographer walking around grumpy

Ask the bride for a list, a wedding brief perhaps, this was mine.

Due to some time constraints, i didn't get a few shots, like her mother left for the Church before the bride was totally ready so didn't get a shot of them in the house. And when i got to the church, within minutes her bridesmaids arrived and The groom agreed I should get in position to photograph her arrival and we did the formal shots at the Church after the ceremony.

Really useful info there RL, thanks again. Getting bored of my questions yet?

ScarySquirrel · 7 Sep 2009 at 01:20

olv said:
Am I right thinking it was this weekend? How did it go?

Just uploading the pics dude, I have the thread all ready to go so some snippets from the first batch I have processed will be up in the next 30 mins or so.

It went well, I learnt a lot, I made a lot of mistakes, I missed some shots, I screwed up settings, I screwed up other stuff, but it was fun and a great experience!