Any advice on web design theft ?

[jamesmorris86]

Hi people,

I'll try and keep it short as to not bore you all. I created a website for my old employer and maintained it while I was working for her. When it came time for me to leave, I offered to sell them the design and domain for a small fee, only a couple of hundred. They politely refused and told me there was no room in the budget. Fair enough I said and kept it civil.

Anyway, 2 weeks later, they have signed up to a new crowd under a new domain who have used some sort of software to clone the site. There is a little commented out code in the html with details of the cloning.

They have left my copyright message and name on the website as the designer and owner of the design.

So i phoned them and asked them to take the design down and that my old employer did not own the design. They contacted my old employer asking her to offer written proof that she owns the design. She has failed to provide this but they are still saying they will not take it down unless instructed by her as she is their client. Even with my name plastered all over the design lol.

Can I actually fight this? is there any little bits of law that I can email to them that may help me?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any advice

 

[Swifty55]

https://www.gov.uk/copyright/overview

Solicitor?

 

[Sudden]

Copyright on the designs should exist, but depends heavily on the agreement with your old employer. If you were directly employed, then typically employment agreement would state that anything you create belongs to them. If providing a service to them, then the agreements we have with our suppliers at least normally say that anything the supplier creates assigns (and so belongs) to us. With something like a website, I would insist on ownership transferring (to avoid the issue you have detailed), though the company I work for likely has a different bargaining position so can insist on something like that quite easily.

 

[dowie]

well yes, firstly it isn't theft, they've perhaps infringed copyright though - your best bet is to go and speak to a solicitor - did you have a written contract when you made the site and did you make it in your own time without using any of their resources etc..?

It just seems a bit odd that something you made for an employer, while you were an employee, would be your intellectual property and not theirs?

 

[Craig321]

As above, a standard contract will say that anything you make while employed is the company's property, basically.

 

[Rroff]

It just seems a bit odd that something you made for an employer, while you were an employee, would be your intellectual property and not theirs?

Was wondering that - standard terms in an employment contract would give them rights to stuff like that created as part of your job for them. Surprised they didn't take it to court at the time as it would have been a pretty much guaranteed win for them under most circumstances.

Generally there are limited options for this even assuming you own the rights anyhow - when I worked for one of the GSPs a competitor made a pretty much 1:1 copy of the site with a few minor changes and spammed google, etc. heavily to try and redirect traffic to the wrong site - legally they only had to stop any attempts at impersonation directly and make some very minor changes to the site but there was nothing we could do to prevent them from using basically the same layout and visual elements and even quite a few assets that were directly copied. (We went down the whole creative commons, etc. route as well - US based company - but again its relatively limited in terms of protection).

 

[Kutter]

A chinese company completely copied the website of the company i worked for in the UK. Products and all, they just changed the company name sections. They were making knock offs of our products too, but there wasnt much that could be done about it.

 

[jamesmorris86]

I was under a casual contract which has no specifics in it what so ever. No mention that anything I create belongs to them. It is a half a page contract pretty much stating dates to start and how much notice to give.

I made the design in my own time and then they paid me £30 a month to update content pages which I'm happy for them to still use. It's just the design I have a problem with.

 

[Craig321]

Keep it nice for a few months, keep contacting both your old boss and the new company and ask them if they can take it down as you own the design etc. (or tell them it'll cost x if they want to keep it).

If you've only asked them to take it down, then I can see why they would resist... they don't want to upset clients. If you offer that they keep it for £x then you might get further.

After that, well, you could go legal, but is it really worth the stress, time and money?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Should have just deleted all the web files from the server before you left.

 

[jamesmorris86]

I left it online during my notice period. They copied it within those days

 

[Cromulent]

https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/protect/p15_design_rights

The important bit is this:

Who owns the design right?

Typically the creator of the design owns any rights in it, except where the work was commissioned or created during the course of employment, in which case the rights belong to the employer or party that commissioned the work.

Looks like you are out of luck. Your old employer owns all the rights to the design.

 

[Haggisman]

Looks like you are out of luck. Your old employer owns all the rights to the design.

Surely that depends on the nature of the employment?

"During the course of your employment" means as part of your job, not just because you happen to work there at the time.

If you're a shop assistant and as a favour you offer to set up a website for the shop in your own time, then I can't see how they can then claim ownership of it. Obviously if you're employed as a web developer to create the company's website then that does belong to them

 

[FoxEye]

https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/protect/p15_design_rights

The important bit is this:



Looks like you are out of luck. Your old employer owns all the rights to the design.

For one it says "typcially", hence not a blanket statement to cover all scenarios.

Second he didn't create it during work time but at home. Meaning it's less likely that the employer owns it, if there's no contract specifically stating as such.

 

[Raumarik]

I was under a casual contract which has no specifics in it what so ever. No mention that anything I create belongs to them. It is a half a page contract pretty much stating dates to start and how much notice to give.

I made the design in my own time and then they paid me £30 a month to update content pages which I'm happy for them to still use. It's just the design I have a problem with.

If you have proof that they never paid for the design but purely for maintenance then you may have a case, without evidence you have next to nothing though.

I've seen letters over one photograph on a site though, a bill basically saying pay us X within 30 days or we'll take you to court for copyright. Worth a try and if you have evidence small claims may rule in your favour for it. Costs money to go down that route though.

Take screenshots etc, keep everything you can in the meantime.

 

[Haggisman]

Tell them how much you want as monthly fee, let them know if they don't take it down within X period you'll take that as acceptance of the fee, then start invoicing them

 

[kindai]

Surely that depends on the nature of the employment?

It would depend entirely on if this was something done in work hours rather than his "usual work" or if this was an additional contract outside of work and separately paid for as such.

If the OP has a contract and payment for providing a website outside of his employment contract then he may be in luck.

 

[Rroff]

It would depend entirely on if this was something done in work hours rather than his "usual work" or if this was an additional contract outside of work and separately paid for as such.

If the OP has a contract and payment for providing a website outside of his employment contract then he may be in luck.

If being the key there - otherwise a court will almost certainly rule on the side of the previous employer in this case - if it is ambiguous at all they will almost always rule on the side of the employer as well - they don't seem to like anything that could potentially hold a business to ransom unless there is very clear evidence otherwise.

 

[neil_g]

Quote Gov.uk

Works created for an employer
Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work, or a film, is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work (subject to any agreement to the contrary). The expression “in the course of employment” is not defined by the Act but in settling disputes the courts have typically had to decide whether the employee was working under a ‘contract of service’ (eg as an employee) or a ‘contract for services’ (eg as a freelancer or independent contractor).

Where a person works under a ‘contract for services’ he will usually retain copyright in any works he produces, unless there is a contractual agreement to the contrary.

An employer should keep careful records of which person(s) created the work for them and any contractual agreements which were in force. The period of copyright protection will usually still be linked to the date of the death of the creator(s) - that is the employee(s).

 

[neil_g]

In short, good luck fighting that.

Copyright act 1988 (my bolding) :

)Where a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work [F5, or a film,] is made by an employee in the course of his employment, his employer is the first owner of any copyright in the work subject to any agreement to the contrary.