Any bike mechanics here?

thedoc46

thedoc46

thedoc46

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Expat in the USA
Hi,

I have two Marin Urban bikes that need some spokes replaced. A 2005 Marin Novato and a 2009 Marin Point Reyes. Both are 26" wheels. I'm not looking to rebuild the wheel here, just replace spokes as they break.

From the front wheel of the Novato, I removed a spoke using one of those 15 sized spoke wrenches, and it measured 263mm give or take a mm. I used a park tool SBC-1, spoke and cotter gauge.

Where I live, the humidty is not too kind on the spokes, i tend to have one break every few months. I'd like to buy a bundle up.

But am i right in thinking, that the front and back spokes maybe different sizes. Upto three different sizes, not taking into account the other bike. (On the Novato alone, the front wheel one size, and two different sizes for each side of the rear. Or am i safe just buying up a bundle of 263mm spokes?

I have the tools to take apart the cassette, so i guess i could just take it all apart, remove one spoke from each side and measure.

What's the general rule of thumb on a typical 26" wheel that's found on those type of bikes.
 
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I wouldn't buy his book though.
just hit up youtube theres dozens of different tutorials for almost every bike related job out there
 
MrGrumpy said:
don't have too but I thought it was good value :/
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well tbh with how much books cost if you bought for for everything you could easily spend £100
where as I could take my bike to a local bike place and do a full strip and rebuild workshop for 90
On the day you will be provided with a bike stand and the necessary tools required. All you need to bring is your ‘CLEAN’ bike!

The course is priced at £90 and includes tea, coffee, sandwich and a cake.
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which imo is much better knowledge and easier to pick up then you would get from a book.

or you can just hire the workspace/tools for something stupid like £6 and they say they will guide you if you require help
 
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arknor said:
I wouldn't buy his book though.
just hit up youtube theres dozens of different tutorials for almost every bike related job out there
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I have troweled YouTube, however, none of them properly explain spoke lengths. They're either how to rebuild the entire wheel using the spoke calc, which is complicated in itself, and even more so if you've not got the flange measuring tools, or they're too simplistic as in, this is how you remove the tyre, this is how you remove the spoke, then they just say take the spoke to your local bike shop for them to measure.

I just want to buy some online. I was under the assumption that all front wheel lengths would be the same, then 'maybe' a different length per side of the rear.. BUT, i'm finding it hard to get a straight answer.
 
I'd assume every wheel size uses the same spokes size?
700c all use the same size spokes?
29er wheels all use the same size spokes?
26inch wheels all use the same size spokes etc ?

It's supposed to be a circle but how could it be if the spokes weren't even lengths?
Maybe if you are doing a show off spoke design then you maybe use different size spokes but for a standard spoke design i'd assume they would all be exactly the same length

edit apparently it depends on what hubs you have the flange diameter of your wheel etc
maybe this ecel document is off some use to you?
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm
Spocalc is the full strength version and includes hub and rim databases. I am constantly adding new rims and hubs, so download a fresh copy frequently.
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if you know what hubs and rims you have it sounds like you can just select them from a drop down menu or something and it will tell you what spoke sizes you need
 
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thedoc46 said:
I do not have the flange measuring tools. Besides this is more for a complete rebuild, as appose to changing a few spokes.

Nor does it answer my question.
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it is for everything wheel related?? I will assume that on a rear wheel , drive and non drive side spokes will be different in length. I maybe wrong but unless you can measure a spare be removing another spoke then the spoke calculator would have helped you work it out??? As mentioned by the OP , you can google all of this to get a fairly good idea on sizes. From my own experience and in fact what I will be doing today is actually taking the wheel to a shop and asking for a spoke that will fit, simples. You can then go and fit it yourself??

Oh and just to add might be better posting in a more appropriate cycling forum, will not suggest one for fear of advertising but you will get a far better answer than you would here!
 
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Depends entirely on the wheel but the drive side will be about 2mm shorter than the non drive side. If it's a double wall rim you may well get away with using the longer spoke.

Being a Marin bike it will have some sort of generic hub/rim combo that isn't as well published as say a Hope Pro2 on stans flow so getting figures is harder.

I don't see why humidity plays a big part? Once a few spokes go the tension won't be even throughout the wheel and that is what will be putting higher stresses on the spokes causing them to break.
 
ok, so i took apart another spoke from the rear, and it does seem that they're all 263mm so my question is answered.

As for the humidity. I live in SW Florida, where humidity levels start off at 100% in the early part of the morning. Bikes stay in garages, which are not climatized. Where the spokes criss cross, as time goes on, the rubbing / tension takes away the paint and that's where they start to rust and weaken. The LBS use to replace spokes for a few bucks, but now they're charging their shop min of $15, so that's why I'll be doing my own in future. Besides i have most of the tools, so why not. :) thanks for the help.
 
Jonny ///M said:
Depends entirely on the wheel but the drive side will be about 2mm shorter than the non drive side. If it's a double wall rim you may well get away with using the longer spoke.
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thedoc46 said:
ok, so i took apart another spoke from the rear, and it does seem that they're all 263mm so my question is answered.
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You might have taken 2 from the same side. As Jonny says, the drive side spokes are usually shorted then the non-drive side if the wheel is dished, which unlessy you have a track bike I'm assuming yours is.
 
[DOD]Asprilla;24715557 said:
Usually they are shorter but not in all cases.

Shimano 105 rear hubs use the same spoke length on each side. It's unusual but not necessarily wrong.
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Fair enough... i guess as you can change the effective length depending on how much you thighten the nut. But best to be sure he's measured both sides to make sure.

Of course you can have some funky lacing that uses 3 different sizes even on an undished wheel.
 
[DOD]Asprilla;24715557 said:
Usually they are shorter but not in all cases.

Shimano 105 rear hubs use the same spoke length on each side. It's unusual but not necessarily wrong.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I can't see how it's possible with the flanges being the same diameter but the drive side flange sitting twice as far to the centre which gives it a shorter distance to travel.
 
How hard is it to true/build a wheel anyway? if you have one of those tension meter things do you just basically make every spoke the same tension ? or is there an art to it? (not meaning fancy spoke patterns)
 
arknor said:
How hard is it to true/build a wheel anyway? if you have one of those tension meter things do you just basically make every spoke the same tension ? or is there an art to it? (not meaning fancy spoke patterns)
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You need a truing stand as well really.
It can be done on the bike, but it's much more difficult that way.

Jonny ///M said:
Are you sure? I can't see how it's possible with the flanges being the same diameter but the drive side flange sitting twice as far to the centre which gives it a shorter distance to travel.
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Doesnt sound right to me either. It can work on some hubs though, my fulcrum 7s are laced radially on the non-drive side and 2cross on the drive side. Not measured them but i'd guess that makes the spoke lengths similar for each side?
Pretty sure thats not the case for 105 hubs though?
 
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touch said:
You need a truing stand as well really.
Well, it can be done on the bike, but it's much more difficult that way.
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well I don't think it's something I really want to learn any time soon I was just wondering how hard it was.
I could rent a stand+tools for 6quid an hour near by though which makes fixing everything my self more attractive even if I don't currently own the tools and I'm guessing they have truing stands if they do wheel building classes

is it worth taking a wheel building class even if it's like 45? Sounds like a nearly all day thing or at least several hours with food etc and "freebies" whatever they are.
or is it something you can practice and learn easily enough from youtube etc :P ? The worst that's likely to happen is you break some spokes riding unless your a total moron and get it totally wrong?
 
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I'd be more worried about chain/maintenance/gear/bb etc stuff than wheels.. Changing a spoke on a wheel is dead easy IMO and I've done it a couple of times.. Rebuilding isn't easy but I've managed to rebuild a bmx rear wheel without much problems or truing stand to hand.

But yeah general maintenance is what I would research if I was you arknor.
 
Following on from this, I went ahead and removed the wheel again, and took a spoke off from the drive side. Indeed it was shorter. 260mm on the drive side.

So 263 for front and rear(non drive side) and 260 for the drive side of the rear. It was actually quite difficult to get the spoke out the drive side. I had to remove the cassette, and even then the I had to considerably bend the spoke to get it out. I'm guessing I used the wrong technique. But it was a good learning process. At least I know what I need to be buying now.
 
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