Any consumer law buffs around?

[Alexrose1uk]

Im trying to find the exact clauses that entitle you to a refund, bar some withheld for time where a product was used.

Without going into gory details about how abysmal the service has been and the sheer state of the TS department, I bought a laptop about 2 months ago; the repair/replacement part system has been an absolute joke not to mention I was lied to.

The company has attempted to send out replacement parts to correct the fault (the replacement parts themselves were faulty), so it was sent back for repair only to be returned still not working (!!). I have had the laptop for about 8-9 weeks, and it has been faulty for the last 6, in unusable condition.

They have therefore been given the option to repair the laptop as required by SOGA, and this has also passed beyond 'reasonable expected time' for the repair. The laptop is no longer part of thier catalog and sold by them, nor do they have another comparable machine for sale at the same price; so the replacement part of the SOGA is also invalid (not to mention you could consider the faulty parts they sent as attempt at replacement).

I am now trying to obtain a refund on the item, as frankly I've had enough and would rather take my custom elsewhere, however they're trying to refuse, trying to, basically, get me to send it back for repair as many times as it takes, frankly Im pretty sure there is legislation that makes this illegal, and a refund must be offered as the other clauses of the various SOG Acts have been fulfilled.

Any help appreciated; I have more than had enough! If anyone can provide the exact parts of consumer legislation which may help me it'd be massively appreciated, as the law documents I've found are obviously not in laymans, and go back and forward like a yoyo! I also have the finance company investigating, however if I can take this forward without them it would be preferable.

 

[Janesy B]

Talk to the CAB.

Don't take legal advice from someone on the internet.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Im already looking at that route, unfortunately my hours aren't always friendly (like right now) so Im not sure when Im going to be able to go to the local right now.

 

[Hamster]

Talk to consumer direct.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Haha, they're busy atm and will try and call me back tomorrow hopefully; so frustrated atm!

 

[lee32uk]

Did you buy the Laptop online ? As the distance selling regulations would also come into play.

This is taken from the DSR:

After the deadline for cancellation has passed, a consumer claims that goods are faulty or services do not conform to the contract. Do I have to refund the consumer’s money?

3.67 In general the DSRs do not affect the consumer’s rights under other
legislation, for example the Sale of Goods Act 1979 or the Supply
of Goods and Services Act 1982. If the goods or services do not
conform to the contract and consumers exercise their rights to reject
them, you will have to refund their money.

3.68 If goods develop a fault within the first six months of being sold,
the law presumes that the fault was there when you sold the goods –
unless you can show otherwise. You should not charge return costs
for goods that have been rejected because they are faulty.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

 

[Beans on toast Dave]

Talk to consumer direct.

edit talk to them then go to the store with your phone in hand, if you have no luck phone them up there and then

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Thanks for the additional info, I'd never even considered the DSR, it was bought direct online.

 

[lee32uk]

I would write a letter to the company in question, and quote the DSR parts above, and give them 14 days to refund your money.You also require them to arrange for the faulty Laptop to be collected at their expense.
I would also put in the letter that you will seek compliance through the small claims court if they do not respond accordingly.Make sure you send it recorded delivery.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Problem would be working out where to send such a letter; Alienwares Europe technical base is in Ireland, there TS is apparently located in Poland etc

Unfortunately they seem to assume that they can follow company lines and deny a refund, even though this isnt legally acceptable.

 

[philjohn]

Problem would be working out where to send such a letter; Alienwares Europe technical base is in Ireland, there TS is apparently located in Poland etc

Unfortunately they seem to assume that they can follow company lines and deny a refund, even though this isnt legally acceptable.

did you purchase it with a credit card? If so, try talking to your card company, they may be able to put some pressure on them.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Unfortunately not, was BNPL Finance, however I do have the finance company investigating for me already (hopefully they took it reasonably seriously, as was an assistant manager who emailed me back to let me know they were investigating). If I am not contacted tomorrow as promised; then I will be updating them to inform them that AW are refusing the refund, despite DSR/SOGA and refusing to talk about it beyond a repair (not suitable any longer).

Still, what an absolute a**e...I honestly loved the machine, but the service when I part has died...well its been beyond a joke, Im hoping I dont have to escalate it to the Small Claims Court, but after all of it, Im well prepared to go that far.

 

[Nitefly]

I'm sorry that I don't have the time or energy to write a more helpful post, but two pieces of statute that might help are the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982, and the the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 - the latter of which is enforceable by a number of bodies including the office of fair trading.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Thanks Nitefly, SOGA is already in my portfolio unfortunately trying to read the various acts to provide the direct clauses can be a nightmare, will take a look into UTCCR 1999 as well

Distinctly poor that Im having to jump through so many hoops really, it really does put the company in a poor light on its opinion/contempt of the consumer!

 

[Vonhelmet]

I've got access to Lexisnexis... I'll take a look alter and have a rummage.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Again, thanks a lot Von.

 

[mattyfez]

CAB is a waste of time, have a look here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

 

[Vonhelmet]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, but I do know how to read legislation.

You want part 5A of the Sale Of Goods Act 1979.

48A Introductory

(1) This section applies if—

(a) the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and

(b) the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.

(2) If this section applies, the buyer has the right—

(a) under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or

(b) under and in accordance with section 48C below—

(i) to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or

(ii) to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.

(4) Subsection (3) above does not apply if—

(a) it is established that the goods did so conform at that date;

(b) its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity.

You're a consumer, the goods are faulty within 6 months and that isn't in the nature of the goods, so you can demand repair, replacement, reduction or rescission (i.e. a refund).

48B Repair or replacement of the goods

(1) If section 48A above applies, the buyer may require the seller—

(a) to repair the goods, or

(b) to replace the goods.

(2) If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods, the seller must—

(a) repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;

(b) bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

(3) The buyer must not require the seller to repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods if that remedy is—

(a) impossible, or

(b) disproportionate in comparison to the other of those remedies, or

(c) disproportionate in comparison to an appropriate reduction in the purchase price under paragraph (a), or rescission under paragraph (b), of section 48C(1) below.

(4) One remedy is disproportionate in comparison to the other if the one imposes costs on the seller which, in comparison to those imposed on him by the other, are unreasonable, taking into account—

(a) the value which the goods would have if they conformed to the contract of sale,

(b) the significance of the lack of conformity, and

(c) whether the other remedy could be effected without significant inconvenience to the buyer.

(5) Any question as to what is a reasonable time or significant inconvenience is to be determined by reference to—

(a) the nature of the goods, and

(b) the purpose for which the goods were acquired.

The seller has to repair or replace the item within a reasonable time and without unduly inconveniencing you, dependant on the nature of the goods.

48C Reduction of purchase price or rescission of contract

(1) If section 48A above applies, the buyer may—

(a) require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods in question to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or

(b) rescind the contract with regard to those goods,

if the condition in subsection (2) below is satisfied.

(2) The condition is that—

(a) by virtue of section 48B(3) above the buyer may require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or

(b) the buyer has required the seller to repair or replace the goods, but the seller is in breach of the requirement of section 48B(2)(a) above to do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the buyer.

(3) For the purposes of this Part, if the buyer rescinds the contract, any reimbursement to the buyer may be reduced to take account of the use he has had of the goods since they were delivered to him.

You can request rescission only if the item hasn't been repaired or replaced within a reasonable time or without undue inconvenience to you.

48D Relation to other remedies etc

(1) If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods the buyer must not act under subsection (2) until he has given the seller a reasonable time in which to repair or replace (as the case may be) the goods.

(2) The buyer acts under this subsection if—

(a) in England and Wales or Northern Ireland he rejects the goods and terminates the contract for breach of condition;

(b) in Scotland he rejects any goods delivered under the contract and treats it as repudiated;

(c) he requires the goods to be replaced or repaired (as the case may be).

You can't demand rescission until all other methods have failed, as you argue they have done in your case.

48E Powers of the court

(1) In any proceedings in which a remedy is sought by virtue of this Part the court, in addition to any other power it has, may act under this section.

(2) On the application of the buyer the court may make an order requiring specific performance or, in Scotland, specific implement by the seller of any obligation imposed on him by virtue of section 48B above.

(3) Subsection (4) applies if—

(a) the buyer requires the seller to give effect to a remedy under section 48B or 48C above or has claims to rescind under section 48C, but

(b) the court decides that another remedy under section 48B or 48C is appropriate.

(4) The court may proceed—

(a) as if the buyer had required the seller to give effect to the other remedy, or if the other remedy is rescission under section 48C

(b) as if the buyer had claimed to rescind the contract under that section.

(5) If the buyer has claimed to rescind the contract the court may order that any reimbursement to the buyer is reduced to take account of the use he has had of the goods since they were delivered to him.

(6) The court may make an order under this section unconditionally or on such terms and conditions as to damages, payment of the price and otherwise as it thinks just.

All this stuff is fully enforceable in a court of law, as the court sees fit to decide.

48F Conformity with the contract

For the purposes of this Part, goods do not conform to a contract of sale if there is, in relation to the goods, a breach of an express term of the contract or a term implied by section 13, 14 or 15 above..

Sections 13 and 14 basically mean that goods must be as described, and as implied i.e. in the condition described. You were no doubt sold a laptop described as fit for purpose and implied as fully working. It is not.

Here's the catch...

59 Reasonable time a question of fact

Where a reference is made in this Act to a reasonable time the question what is a reasonable time is a question of fact.

There's no hard and fast rule for what is a reasonable time. That's a question of fact, which means it depends on your specific circumstances in this case and would have to be ruled on by a judge.

There is no clear breach of law if they can argue that the time taken to repair/replace your laptop is reasonable.

The issue of "undue inconvenience" is, unhelpfully but understandably, not defined in the Act, so that will definitely be a question of fact too, and down to what the judge thinks constitutes undue inconvenience.

I'd consider going the small claims court route.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Wow, Von, you have accumulated and labelled pretty much every section of the SOGA I was looking at, and provided annotations to help my family make it easier to read while I talk to them about why I may have to go to Small Claims, and also to try and use in leverage with AW. Very much appreciated; if you use paypal please drop me a PM with your paypal addy and I will be happy to make a 'pint' contribution so you can have one/two on me


As to whether I have fulfilled my part of the SOGA, here is a more descriptive history of what has happened to me; as supplied to the finance company by email so they could investigate, I think given your notes I have done my best to comply with requirements (Alienware have also obviously since tried to deny the refund)! For a machine with a 12 month warranty, I think any repairs stretching to a month and a half could be considered unreasonable, the machine was purchased for general use; including work, not just for gaming, and have been without the machine since July.

The laptop purchased under the finance agreement worked fine for approximately 2 1/2 weeks before developing a hardware fault and becoming unusable. I have since been without a machine for the last 6 weeks, and have explored every avenue possible under the supply and sales of good act 2002.

Initially, I sought to obtain replacement parts under warranty through Alienware, on Friday 24th July. It was agreed over the phone to be a hardware fault; however due to the late hour (approximately 11pm UK time), it would not be possible to process the parts order til the following day and that I would be called back approximately midday to process the goods order. This phone call never materialised; and I called Alienware back mid afternoon on the Saturday to organise the parts order, in the process being told that human error had occured and no return note call left on my account, for which the Technical Support Advisor [henceforth abbreviated as TSA] apologised.

The parts order was then processed, and a desposit of several hundred pounds taken, and I was told the parts would be despatched on the Monday following (27th July) for arrival later in the week. Needless to say the package never materialised; and in trying to contact Alienware support to try and obtain a tracking number for the parcel, I was given multiple stories on missing tracking numbers and despatch dates.

Over the next 2-3 weeks I contacted Alienware in the region of 20+ times to try and discern the location of the parts; and was both bounced from colleague to colleague (I have spoken to at least 10 different TSA), deliberately delayed, promised return calls and emails which never materialised, and directly lied to on whether the package had been despatched, having it confirmed by official email from Miroslav at Technical Support that the parts had been despatched on 26/8/09. I was also told varied stories regarding the stocking levels of the parts; however Alienware refused to provide a temporary replacement part until correct parts were available; despite holding a multi-hundred pound desposit on the parts they so far had been unable to provide, and the suggested temporary solution part being much much cheaper.

Due to the length of time it was taking (approximately a month after initial report of the fault), and the associated appalling service, I sent an official complaint through to Alienware about the situation; requesting a replacement machine, proper update on the replacement parts and a temporary solution, or a refund; and despite not recieving any return correspondence, the required parts actually arrived several days later.
Tellingly the parts had been despatched approximately a day after the complaint was sent, according to the invoice, furthermore the invoice also indicated that the latest date the parts should have arrived was approximately a week earlier! As previously mentioned, this whole section of the process took about a month.

The replacement parts were then swapped into the machine, but unfortunately themselves turned out to be faulty; so the machine was still not in a useable state. I was unhappy over this turn out, especially considering the diabolical customer service up to this point, but considering the situation and requirements under S+SOGA2002, Alienware were contacted, and we agreed to send the machine back to base for a repair, thus as far as my understanding goes fulfilling all available possibilities on my part under the 2002 Act as best as was possible.

The repair process took approximately two weeks, however upon return of the machine, the laptop is STILL non-functional, with no display to the screen, or to an external monitor; which renders it unsuitable for use. The machine has been out of operation for approximately 6 weeks of the 8-9 in which I have possessed it, and now feel my only option is a refund, any further work on the machine would only extend the time span taken, especially with the lack of replacement parts; exceeding the provision under the Sales of Good Act that repairs must be completed within a reasonable length of time. Alienware have been contacted by phone over this refund request; however have not come back to me about a refund as yet.

Replacement of the machine is not an option as the model I purchased has been dropped from Alienware's sales catalog, and they are also once again out of the parts I would require to repair the machine, and are apparently not getting any more in stock; the only comparable model; The M17x with upgraded parts; is distinctly more expensive, and thus would not constitute a fair replacement or expectation on Alienware's part.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Again Vonhelmet, I really do owe you a drink so please do drop me your paypal addy so I can send you a pint on me.

After being threatened with SOGA and small claims court, as the M17 is discontinued, it looks like they've taken the 'initiative' (read: quick offer something before we earn another CCJ) to offer me a replacement M17x. The M17x is much more expensive in the UK, but due to differences is cost; this will be confirmed with them tomorrow, I should be getting a faster, more expensive machine, in a rather trite attempt at apology before being taken to court.

Good for me as Dell have just released the GDDR5 mobility 4870s (the ASUS 4870s were DDR3), thanks to better build quality and design, I may not be getting a refund as yet, but I may be getting a substantially more expensive, faster machine.

After 6 weeks Im just happy the stress is over!!!