Any downsides to a smart meter?

[b0rn2sk8]

You dont have any control of what's happening with your current meter other than how much you use. Lets call a spade a spade, knowingly giving an inaccurate reading is fraud, low level basic fraud but its still fruad.

All a dumb meter does is count how much you use, all a smart meter does is count how much you use and upload meeter readings every 30 mins. Your supplier only gets access to the 30 min reads if you give them permission, otherwise its just daily reads.

The 30 min reads enable you to get access to some interesting time of use electrcity tariffs where many people can save cash. For example:
People on Octopus tracker save a a decent amount compared to the price cap.
Those on EV tarrifs are saving considerable sums.
Those on EV tarifs with solar, are saving a lot, those with batteries even more.
Some of us with EV's, solar and home batteries are being paid by our suppliers.

All enabled by the humble smart meter.

P.S. smart meters have been mandatory in commerical connections for some time now, its not new at all.

 

[BigBoy]

You are probably right, to be honest I never cared, If it not broke.

No example mate, this is what I was told by others, I never cared much, so I never paid too much attention after, which is why Im asked on here.
I'm assuming control of what is happening with the meter, and not remote issues.

As B0rnsk8 has already said, suppliers can only access the reading when they are allowed to buy the customer (options are 30mins, daily, weekly or monthly, you the customer HAVE to Opt IN to 30min readings).

The DCC use the data to pattern map usage, That data IS being used to shape the future of the energy networks, help design the build requirements to scale up production of generation. Data and insight for the networks, working out where and how improvements can be made, how to reduce entropy and stop the potential brownouts that are marking our future unless we change!

 

[2013]

You dont have any control of what's happening with your current meter other than how much you use. Lets call a spade a spade, knowingly giving an inaccurate reading is fraud, low level basic fraud but its still fruad.

All a dumb meter does is count how much you use, all a smart meter does is count how much you use and upload meeter readings every 30 mins. Your supplier only gets access to the 30 min reads if you give them permission, otherwise its just daily reads.

The 30 min reads enable you to get access to some interesting time of use electrcity tariffs where many people can save cash. For example:
People on Octopus tracker save a a decent amount compared to the price cap.
Those on EV tarrifs are saving considerable sums.
Those on EV tarifs with solar, are saving a lot, those with batteries even more.
Some of us with EV's, solar and home batteries are being paid by our suppliers.

All enabled by the humble smart meter.

P.S. smart meters have been mandatory in commerical connections for some time now, its not new at all.

As B0rnsk8 has already said, suppliers can only access the reading when they are allowed to buy the customer (options are 30mins, daily, weekly or monthly, you the customer HAVE to Opt IN to 30min readings).

The DCC use the data to pattern map usage, That data IS being used to shape the future of the energy networks, help design the build requirements to scale up production of generation. Data and insight for the networks, working out where and how improvements can be made, how to reduce entropy and stop the potential brownouts that are marking our future unless we change!

So all the rumours about suppliers being able to alter and over charge are just false ?
In short i've not really cared to check and have been listening rumours and misinformation.

 

[BigBoy]

I have been past of the SMART role out since 2016, as a supplier the companies DONT want to be installing meters, but they have no choice, the cost of that install is roughly £400 per fuel and they are not allowed to add that to the bill (as lots of people seem to believe) it has to be operational cost. The actual meters are no longer supplier owned as previous, they are now rented from the DCC this cost although part of the soon to be abolished standing charge covers this over half is covered from the operational costs of the supplier.

Smart as it exists now is not a new concept, the supplier I work for has pioneered smart service since 2004 when we started some of the first AMR for residential, smart AMR at the time was very new to business and industry, but we tried it anyway. The evolution of smart has been hampered by the government and ofgem slowing down the progress suppliers wanted and they took forever to build the DCC but it is getting there. Its slowed again recently due to hardware issues, specifically with the Alt han Project and 4G Comms hub upgrades, but they are coming.

As suppliers we need to exchange all smets1 meters to smets2 as they are coming to EOL even ones enrolled to DCC compatibility have to be replaced. My employer has 1.4 million meters to replace, as well as the RTS switch off (c.45k meters), add to that the complex and business metering we have just shy of c.4.2 million meters still to exchange out of a total 16.8 million.

The task is mammoth and we expect it to take another 2-4 years before we reach the 90% compliance dicted by Ofgem.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

So all the rumours about suppliers being able to alter and over charge are just false ?
In short i've not really cared to check and have been listening rumours and misinformation.

In short, yes.

Suppliers can’t alter the meter readings, they are held by a government owned company - the ‘DCC’.

That’s not to say a supplier can’t incorrectly bill you but that’s no different to a dumb meter and is also pretty rare in reality.

If there is an issue, they can retrospectively fetch the meter readings from the DCC and reconstruct your bill down to the 30 minute level if you have that enabled and is relevant for your tariff.

You can access your smart meter data yourself via several services which are independent from your supplier if you want to.

 

[BigBoy]

So all the rumours about suppliers being able to alter and over charge are just false ?
In short i've not really cared to check and have been listening rumours and misinformation.

Alter what?

Over charging is nothing new it's happened for years the same as under charging, it happens it's not new or dependent on smart meters! Billing has become far more accurate since smart, not relying on customers dodgy reading!

Customers don't like the facts, that is why they keep trying to give dodgy readings, dodgy reading and estimated billing equals high bills and over payment of direct debit.

By mandate ofgem have demanded every account that has funds that would cover the bills and more be returned if held for over 6 months. If they don't they get fined, and it's not a small amount!

 

[2013]

Thanks for the info it has cleared up a lot.

I know ill need to replace my old meter anyway, so wanted to get clear information.

What are the key benefits other than not manually logging the reading. also smets1 vs smets2 what are the differences and benefits. will the meter need to be replaced every 10 or so years with a new model ?

In short, yes.

Suppliers can’t alter the meter readings, they are held by a government owned company - the ‘DCC’.

That’s not to say a supplier can’t incorrectly bill you but that’s no different to a dumb meter and is also pretty rare in reality.

If there is an issue, they can retrospectively fetch the meter readings from the DCC and reconstruct your bill down to the 30 minute level if you have that enabled and is relevant for your tariff.

You can access your smart meter data yourself via several services which are independent from your supplier if you want to.

That clears up a lot, thanks for the help

So they are better and safer, saving you from the dodgy 3rd party supplier and issues of the past. dont know if the sort are still around but it was a big issue for someone I knew.

 

[BigBoy]

Lots of small 3rd party suppliers have gone under in recent years, stick with the larger ones if you want security/stability.

Larger suppliers also hedge in larger amounts meaning they can offer more stable prices long term.

Benefits of smart, being in control of your spending, knowing what you are spending your money on. SMART is not designed to be a money saving tool it's and educator. This is how much you are spending, helping you to understand your 20 year old fridge although still working costs three times as much as a more modern fridge to run. It's designed to highlight in efficiency.

It was done poorly and education of what smart about was aimed at the 'potential saving' that just did not exist unless you knew how energy efficiency worked.

 

[Molep]

Why would you not want to give energy companies accurate readings?

Just trying to work out the "not having control" comment, and that was all I could think of - some people would think that they would have control over their bills by themselves giving the energy company the meter readings when it suited them, ie, when they had money to pay for it.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

But that wouldn’t matter, if you don’t handover a reading, they just send you an estimated bill which you have to pay.

Likewise the overwhelmingly majorly of customers are on a fixed monthly direct debit anyway.

 

[Molep]

Got x2 smets 2 meters installed last week to replace a smets1 electricity and dial gas meter and they are great, almost instant feedback on electricity usage. I can show the kids in real time how much their loooong showers are costing.

 

[alphaomega16]

This is really useful, thank-you, I'd been wondering if Agile would make sense for me as I work shifts and tend to cook later in the evening so my energy usage is usually away from peak times, this makes it so much easier to see.

np, how did you fair with it? Agile any good?

 

[alphaomega16]

Got x2 smets 2 meters installed last week to replace a smets1 electricity and dial gas meter and they are great, almost instant feedback on electricity usage. I can show the kids in real time how much their loooong showers are costing.

ooooo don't say that, my sister cant use her bath/shower atm she had a problem and needed someone to come sort it out, he done his work but guy who was supposed to come in Tuesday to finish it so it could be used again had to delay til Sunday due to appointment for recently discovered bowel cancer and we are on Agile and she turned up at 4pm for her and my niece and nephew for a shower which is a 9kw shower.

Thankfully we have battery but still ended up drawing 3.5kw from the grid for that shower time and it drained a few kwh from it.

 

[TheVoice]

np, how did you fair with it? Agile any good?

Made the switch over to Agile the other day, seemed to happen almost instantly which was surprising and somewhat caught me out as it takes effect from midnight of the day you accept the T&Cs rather than midnight the day after, so I should have waited until the following morning really. All seems okay so far though, jsut need to remember to keep usage to a minimum between 4 and 7pm but that shouldn't be a problem.

I also found that Octopus' Agile Portal has a useful tool for comparing your historic usage with your old/existing tarriff vs what it would have cost with Agile, which helped make the decision even easier as it showed that over the past few months, I'd have saved money nearly every day on Agile:

Agile Portal

Agile Portal

agile.octopushome.net

Only downside is that the smart meter IHDs don't display the correct unit rate any more so the cost figure they show isn't accurate.

 

[Vestas]

Made the switch over to Agile the other day, seemed to happen almost instantly which was surprising and somewhat caught me out as it takes effect from midnight of the day you accept the T&Cs rather than midnight the day after, so I should have waited until the following morning really. All seems okay so far though, jsut need to remember to keep usage to a minimum between 4 and 7pm but that shouldn't be a problem.

I also found that Octopus' Agile Portal has a useful tool for comparing your historic usage with your old/existing tarriff vs what it would have cost with Agile, which helped make the decision even easier as it showed that over the past few months, I'd have saved money nearly every day on Agile:

Agile Portal

Agile Portal

agile.octopushome.net

Only downside is that the smart meter IHDs don't display the correct unit rate any more so the cost figure they show isn't accurate.

Keep an eye on peak Agile rates - they went to a quid a unit last winter, with some eye-watering (50p+) off-peak rates.

Remember you can switch back to variable any time - or even to another "Smart" tariff but you can only switch between smart tariffs once a month. If Agile gets a bit scary & you have gas CH then Tracker is maybe a better option.

Also the IHD will usually just show the rate when Octopus/other suppliers force a variable rate update to it (when the cap changes). Hence you'll probably see whatever the rate was at 0100 on Agile for 3 months then in another 3 months it changes, rinse/repeat etc.

If you do stick with Octopus then nag them (repeatedly - for months) for an Octopus Home Mini. That connects to the meter & your wifi and means that you get 30 second updates on what the rate/usage is - which I think can be pulled via API from Octopus so you can log it/display it/whatever.

Edit - it also makes it easier to get compo/refunds if the smart meter connectivity goes **** up as Octopus will attempt to bill at SVR prices. They can't legally bill using the OHM unit "measurements" but they have lost at the ombudsman in terms of increased costs and lost exports for one consumer I know of on that basis.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Made the switch over to Agile the other day, seemed to happen almost instantly which was surprising and somewhat caught me out as it takes effect from midnight of the day you accept the T&Cs rather than midnight the day after, so I should have waited until the following morning really. All seems okay so far though, jsut need to remember to keep usage to a minimum between 4 and 7pm but that shouldn't be a problem.

I also found that Octopus' Agile Portal has a useful tool for comparing your historic usage with your old/existing tarriff vs what it would have cost with Agile, which helped make the decision even easier as it showed that over the past few months, I'd have saved money nearly every day on Agile:

Agile Portal

Agile Portal

agile.octopushome.net

Only downside is that the smart meter IHDs don't display the correct unit rate any more so the cost figure they show isn't accurate.

Problem is this tool only works if your comparing a simple tariff to agile.
If you have been on another TOU tariff or are thinking of moving from agile it assumes you have not already moved your usage around.
Which if your using a TOU tariff then you almost certainly will have.