Any legal eagles here? (planning permission?)

masterk

masterk

masterk

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Hi guys, i was wondering if i could get some advice?

My parents have run a small bus business doing school contract runs (for 3 years or so), with a minibus and a 26 seater mini coach, we recently had the front garden converted into a driveway, which meant we could get the coach well off the road (which is a rule if you get a CPC license). The buses are only stored at the house, like any vehicle.

Shortly after they got the coach they had a guy from the council around, saying the neighbours had complained about the coach, he had a good look round and decided it was absolutely fine and no planning permission was needed (even making fun of the neighbours).

Just recently they got a letter saying they should cease and desist because they need planning permission (and then said, if they were to apply they would be denied). Now they say there are no "commercial" vehicles allowed in residential areas. Basically there would be no problem if the neighbours werent being childish. Basically this is all i can find on the wonderful internet.

Working from Home

You do not necessarily need planning permission to work from home. The key test is whether the overall character of the dwelling will change as a result of the business. If the answer to any of the following questions is "yes", then permission will probably be needed:

* Will your home no longer be used mainly as a private residence?
* Will your business result in a marked rise in traffic or people calling?
* Will your business involve any activities unusual in a residential area?
* Will your business disturb your neighbours at unreasonable hours or create other forms of nuisance such as noise or smells?

Whatever business you carry out from your home, whether it involves using part of it as a bed-sit or for"bed and breakfast"accommodation, using a room as your personal office, providing a childminding service, using rooms for hairdressing, dressmaking or music teaching, or using buildings in the garden for repairing cars or storing goods connected with a business the key test is: is it still mainly a home or has it become business premises?
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Now the top question is a no, the second is a no, the third is not so clear cut, the buses are only in use twice a day between 8am and 4pm, and the 4th, its not more noisy than your average diesel and its not smelly.

Basically i was just after something i could tell them in the way of advice, they just want to know if they have a leg to stand on, i hoped somewhere may have some experience with this issue (or even if anyone knows some people good to talk to about this).

Thanks for reading.
 
The rule of thumb is that if you drop a curb in the drive way it will need planning permission since you are technically altering the High Way (the curb belongs to the council, not you). Best to write a letter to the planning office/local authority for clarity on this issue, best case is that the planners will write back to confirm what he told you in person (which will be enough as it would be in writing), worst case is you submit planning permission retrospectively, and really worst case is you put the road as it was before.
 
Raymond Lin said:
The rule of thumb is that if you drop a curb in the drive way it will need planning permission since you are technically altering the High Way (the curb belongs to the council, not you). Best to write a letter to the planning office/local authority for clarity on this issue, best case is that the planners will write back to confirm what he told you in person (which will be enough as it would be in writing), worst case is you submit planning permission retrospectively, and really worst case is you put the road as it was before.
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I think i may have been a bit vague, sorry its not the curb or driveway that the council dont want, its literally just having the buses there. Curb and driveway got permission.
 
Am I the only person who would be mighty annoyed if I lived on a residential street and some wiseguy decided it would be great to use his garden as a coachpark?
 
[TW]Fox said:
Am I the only person who would be mighty annoyed if I lived on a residential street and some wiseguy decided it would be great to use his garden as a coachpark?
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Thats the point, whole village does it, and the funny thing is, you could have a £60,000 motorhome there and its completely fine.
 
In a nutshell, your neighbours are probably annoyed that their house prices will have dropped slightly as a result of having a coach parked nearby. As for whether they can actually do anything about it on the other hand...no idea! Best bet is speak to the council and if there's a problem then as with everything like this which potentially involves a fair bit of money, get some proper legal advice!
 
I'm afraid I side with your neighbours, having large vehicles being parked next door would very clearly count as a "nuisance" from my point of view, I don't think they're being childish at all. Just my opinion.
 
Cut and paste from notes. Not specific to your problem.

When is planning permission required?

s. 57(1) TCPA 1990 provides ‘planning permission is required for the carrying out of any ‘development’ of land’.

s. 55 TCPA 1990 defines development as ‘the carrying out of building, engineering, mining or other operations in, on, over and under land, or the making of any material change in the use of any buildings or other land’.

There are essentially 2 sorts of development - ‘operations’, which means physically doing something to the land and ‘change of use’, which relates to the use to which land is put.

The Act declares that the following are ‘material changes’ and therefore constitute development:

 The conversion of a single dwelling into two or more dwellings;
 The deposit of refuse; and
 The display of advertisements on the outside of a building.

In any other situation it is a question of fact and degree as to whether the change is material.

Requirement of planning permission

Once it is established that a proposal does constitute development, planning permission will be needed to enable it to be carried out.

Applications for planning permission

Applications for planning permission have to be submitted to the local planning authority. A fee is payable. Some applications have to be advertised and the applicant does not have to be the owner of the land.

An application can either be for outline planning permission or detailed (or full) planning permission.

An outline planning permission is essentially a decision as to whether in principle development would be acceptable. It is only available in relation to building works. It is granted subject to approval of the detail of the application, these details being called ‘reserve matters’.

An application for full or detailed planning permission includes all the relevant plans and information for the application.

A planning permission will normally be given subject to conditions, which must be complied with. If planning permission is rejected it is possible to appeal to the Secretary of State and then to the High Court. It is not possible for 3rd parties to appeal a successful grant of planning permission, the only option is judicial review.

How long does planning permission last?

If outline permission is granted, an application for approval of reserved matters must be submitted within 3 years and the development must be commenced within 5 years of the grant of the outline permission or 2 years of the approval of reserved matters whichever is later - s. 92 TCPA 1990.

If detailed planning permission is given the development must be commenced within 5 years (reduced to 3 years since 24/8/05). Although it is possible to start work and then stop to satisfy the formality.

However, if the development is commenced within the relevant time period, but progress is not being made, the local planning authority can serve a completion notice under s. 94 TCPA 1990. This has the effect of terminating the planning permission at the end of a reasonable period of not less than 12 months, with the result that after the end of that period any work carried out will not be authorised.

Planning Appeals

The local planning authority has 8 weeks to consider a planning application. If the application is refused, or is granted subject to certain conditions, the applicant has a right of appeal to the Secretary of State within 6 months - s. 78 TCPA 1990. It is then possible to appeal to the High Court within 6 weeks - s. 288 TCPA 1990.

There is no right of appeal by 3rd parties. They’re only option is to use the judicial review procedure.

Enforcement

Although planning permission for development is required, development without planning permission is not a criminal offence.

Where there has been a breach of planning control, either by the carrying out of unauthorised development or by a failure to comply with a condition attached to a planning permission, the local authority can serve an enforcement notice. They can also serve a stop notice preventing work on the development but an enforcement notice will be required before a stop notice can be served.

The notice must be served on all interested parties and include various details including how to remedy the breach. A failure to comply with an enforcement notice is a criminal offence although there is a right of appeal to the Secretary of State.

An enforcement notice must be served within 4 years of the breach of planning control where the alleged breach is the carrying out of operations or changing the use of a building to a single-dwelling house.

In any other case (most other changes of use) the notice must be served within 10 years of the alleged breach.

If an appeal is lodged this has the effect of cancelling the suspension. This power is infrequently used because if the enforcement is held to be invalid the local authority will have to pay compensation for the loss caused by stopping the activity required by the stop notice.



I can email you the notes in entirety if you like.

Basically, if parking of the coach constitutes development it will be a severe uphill struggle.

Hope this helps.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Am I the only person who would be mighty annoyed if I lived on a residential street and some wiseguy decided it would be great to use his garden as a coachpark?
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urmm........I don't see the problem :S it's his front garden, as long as it isnt blocking light to yours i really don't see how it affects you :S Guy across the road always parks a transit type van infront of his house, and a caravan on his drive, which is more of a nuisance than a minibus or two on somoenes drive, and it doesn't bother me / anyone in the slightest

Tom.
 
been through this sort of problem here, basically if you have some one complaining , the council will persist. we used to run a mobile business and it got to the point where we could not even park a works van on the driveway. :eek: (signwriting apparently wasnt allowed) .
 
rG-tom said:
urmm........I don't see the problem :S it's his front garden, as long as it isnt blocking light to yours i really don't see how it affects you :S Guy across the road always parks a transit type van infront of his house, and a caravan on his drive, which is more of a nuisance than a minibus or two on somoenes drive, and it doesn't bother me / anyone in the slightest

Tom.
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It makes the neighbour hood look a bit grotty - what would you rather have, nice row of immaculately kept lawns and neatly parked cars, or some bloke parking coaches on his garden?

Whether you personally agree or not changes nothing, people DO think like that and it also affects people selling houses, some people are petty enough to be but off by things like that.
 
Pfft most of the houses round here have large van parked outside, including our house. Damn my neighbour as upto 3 large vans parked by his as he runs a courier service from home.

More and more people are working from home, so how they can expect you to not park on your own property is beyond me.

Yes if it was a rotting wreck and unslightly I'd support it being removed, but a minibus that is used to get kids to school (Is it local kids?) is hardly a nuisance.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Am I the only person who would be mighty annoyed if I lived on a residential street and some wiseguy decided it would be great to use his garden as a coachpark?
Click to expand...

Well it is his land. He can do what he wants with his land. :mad:
 
So these days, if for example yo buy your own land, you cannot park your car on it because someone doesnt like the look of it?

Ridiculous.
 
a car is hardly the same as a minibus or small coach though. I'd be annoyed if next door started parking a minibus on there front garden I think. not that you could (it's only about 10 foot by 8) but that's not the point.

I think to the OP if the council came round and said it was fine then it should be fine. But perhaps a letter to them questioning the decision would help.


HT
 
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