Any point in running HDMI though the AV receiver to the tv ? & general audio advice

[snowdog]

As per title,

I have ordered 3 things in the past 2 weeks, 2 are yet to arrive:

JAMO S426 floorstanding speakers ( just 2 fronts) - These have arrived already, they are currently plugged in downstairs on the B channel of an old stereo amp, want to use them in my room...
Sony STR-DA2400ES A/V receiver. I ordered this purely with the intention of using this as a 5.1 amp to replace my Z5500's I'm now bored of ( rubbish midtones and high tones, but low tones/sub wise it's fine imho)...
Samsung LE 32C530 HDTV


Basically I want to ask for the best setup I can do for now Video wise, and audio wise ( use the z5500 speakers and sub on the AV receiver to fill up the lacking speakers I'm yet to buy, or just the 2 Jamo's).
I plan on using the TV for just TV and as my monitor for my pc ( replacing a 24'' screen).

Video wise:
Now, do I do PC>TV though hdmi directly, or PC>A/V receiver>TV, what is the point of the AV receiver video wise ?

Audio wise, I have 3 options:
1- AV receiver with the 2 jamo speakers as front, fill up any missing speakers with the z5500 speakers ( the 2 rears and the center), and plug in the sub of the Z5500's to the pre-out of the AV receiver.
Means a full set of 5.1 speakers inc sub, but I'll have 2 devices for the volume and have... ( leaning towards this option)
2- AV receiver with just the 2 jamo speakers. lose 5.1 for a couple of months ( which I'm not really willing to do, I love 5.1 in CoD4 and other games )
3- Forget the AV receiver for now for pc&tv, continue with z5500's for the pc&tv. Use A/V receiver purely for Radio, LP's and Casette tapes for now and not home cinema.

Now I'm planning to buy more floorstanders for the rears, a 300-400€ sub and a good center speaker later ( say feb-march time?), but for now my wallet has a big enough dent from the last 3 buys...

I only have 2 video sources, an analog cable (tv) and the pc through HDMI, pc is used for browsing, for 1080p films, and gaming.
I have the following audio sources:
PC ( can be analog, coax or optical, It spits out 5.1 during films and games and stereo during music time, this is the most important source, anything else is less important, my music&film collection is on here and spotify is too).
TV Opical out, stereo I guess...
Optional-
I have a spare kenwood LP player, and an AIWA casette player lying around and I'd love to use both of them again. Both stereo analog sources.

I definitely want stereo ( or well, stereo x2, fronts cloned to backs and a sub ) for music, and I want 5.1 for films and games, so I'm leaning towards option 1 for the audio part, and while I'm open to any advice, but my main question is, as said before in the thread:

Do I do PC>TV though hdmi directly, or PC>A/V receiver>TV ?

Any other advice is welcome but that's the only question I ''really'' want an answer on.

 

[Fr0dders]

the point of the HDMI inputs on the receiver is for Dolby Tru HD and DTS HD audio

You cant get these from optical S/PDIF or Coaxial outputs

However your ouputting PC audio which wont be able to output this unless your playing a bluray with a supporting soundcard and software.

Other benefit is for lip syncing. If the receiver has the audio + video input via HDMI, it makes easier to sync than if the Audio goes the Receiver, and the Video directly to the TV.

 

[snowdog]

the point of the HDMI inputs on the receiver is for Dolby Tru HD and DTS HD audio

You cant get these from optical S/PDIF or Coaxial outputs

However your ouputting PC audio which wont be able to output this unless your playing a bluray with a supporting soundcard and software.

Other benefit is for lip syncing. If the receiver has the audio + video input via HDMI, it makes easier to sync than if the Audio goes the Receiver, and the Video directly to the TV.

Thanks, I don't think I'll have syncing problems.

So I'll simply do:
PC>TV through hdmi.
PC>A/V receiver though Optical or coax.

 

[Fr0dders]

well the sound will usually not match exactly what processed separately, you usually have to adjust the delay in the receiver to get them spot on.

 

[snowdog]

well the sound will usually not match exactly what processed separately, you usually have to adjust the delay in the receiver to get them spot on.

How does it differ exactly from what I have now with a 24'' hd screen though dvi and the z5500's ? Never noticed the sound being off from the video. Is the receiver or the tv slower than the control pod of my current speakers or monitor ?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I assumed an a/v receiver does everything my current z5500's do, and a tv would do everything a monitor would ?

 

[Fr0dders]

Yes because your Z5500 speakers didnt do the sound processing

your PC did

Now your AV receiver is going to be doing the processing, whereas the video is going to be processed by your PC. Its that difference in where the processing is done that can create a difference in the timings which leads to the lip syncing being out.

its easily correctable, have a look in your receiver manual about how to configure the audio delay. You just adjust that till they are synced

 

[snowdog]

Yes because your Z5500 speakers didnt do the sound processing

your PC did

Now your AV receiver is going to be doing the processing, whereas the video is going to be processed by your PC. Its that difference in where the processing is done that can create a difference in the timings which leads to the lip syncing being out.

its easily correctable, have a look in your receiver manual about how to configure the audio delay. You just adjust that till they are synced

I thought they did when I remixed stereo into 5.1 with pro logic II for stereo films or mixed stereo into stereo x2 for music with the control pod?

Can't the AV receiver simply behave like an amplifier, with the pc continuing to do the processing, or am I failing to see something here ?

Thanks though and if I notice it being de-synched I'll look it up in the manual when I get it, guess I misunderstand what an A/V receiver is exactly, I just saw it as a stereo amp but with more channels, crossover freqs/filters for the sub, more inputs, and some remixing options like my z5500's have. I'll have a long and careful read when I get it in.

 

[Fr0dders]

*edit*

Ok theres so many different things going on in this thread i think i better recap.

You are outputting your video from your graphics card to the TV. Which graphics card is this ? Some graphics cards do audio ouput over HDMI, some dont.

if you have a graphics card that doesnt do audio over HDMI, then you're going to have to put the audio through a different scable to the HDMI.

The only way the 2400 amp will allow HDMI video to be mixed with a different audio is if you use the optical digital output of your sound card.

You can choose what the optical output sends depending on which sound card you have. If you have a soundcard that supports "Bitstream" like the Create X-Fi, then the PC is going to be sending undecoded audio to the receiver, and the receiver can process the audio. When outputted with the video via HDMI at the same time, this should keep everything nice and sync'd and give you nice high quality Dolby Digital audio.

One of the main reasons the 2400 can take audio over HDMI is to enable it to do Dolby HD and DTS HD audio, but i'm buessing you dont have a soundcard that can output this over HDMI so its not a feature thats of use to you, unless you maybe connected a PS3 slim or a blu ray player up to it as well as the PC.

Now, before you had the receiver, you could ouput the audio two ways. You could either output output the audio as bitstream, which the speakers would decode and turn into proper 5.1 surround sound (via optical or coaxial output)

or you could output it as 2.1 audio via Linear PCM and let the speakers turn it into 5.1 sound.

This isnt as preferable as bitstream, so i'm a little bit puzzled why you'd have the choice to get proper 5.1 audio using bitstrea, but then choose to ignore that and remix a 2.1 audio stream just to avoid using your shiny new amp as a video source to ensure the audio / video sync together.

thats the reason WHY the 2400 can mix Optical Audio and HDMI video - to ensure you get nice 5.1 Bitstream Audio, properly sync'd with your HDMI audio.

 

[snowdog]

yes it can

but why didnt you just stick with what you've got ?

one of the whole points about AV receivers is getting them to do the processing for you.

I want more sound quality and more volume, the Z5500's don't cut imo. ( The satellites should be doing the lower tones too imo not just the sub, some speakers are more than capable and have fine subwoofers but some idiot thought it was a good idea to set them to 125hz and over, and do the midtones and higher tones far better, otherwise I'd have replaced the satellites on the z5500 LONG ago).
I want to be able to listen to LP's and Casettes in my own room.
I wanted a bigger screen and I wanted a tv with audio out so it can go through an amp or 5.1 set or similar.
And doing all the above, not lose any functionality I have atm.

The only processing I really want is stereo into stereo x2 for music with a couple of analog inputs, and a sub helping the sattelites with anything under 80hz, and remixing a couple of old flicks from stereo into 5.1 with pro logic, aside from that the source audio from the pc is fine, it outputs 5.1 for games and hd films already.

 

[Fr0dders]

If you want more sound quality you want to be using bitstream - not linear PCM.

can your soundcard do this ?

 

[snowdog]

If you want more sound quality you want to be using bitstream - not linear PCM.

can your soundcard do this ?

Not that I know ?

 

[Fr0dders]

which one is it ?

 

[snowdog]

which one is it ?

Audigy 2zs.

I find it a tad hard to believe a new soundcard would be anything else than a waste of money considering my speakers now. Especially considering even 128 kbit mp3's sound FAR better in my car than in my room, far more boomy and clearer high tones. A new soundcard wouldn't make it significantly louder either.


Just to clarify, I don't really care about sound quality in films, it's fine as it is, I don't have bluray and I don't think I have any DTS HD or Dolby HD sources, I want more sound quality playing stereo music, either from my pc, or from an LP. While keeping my current 5.1 setup for games and films. And I want more volume. I think you're missing how crap the z5500's are for music regardless of source and signal.

 

[Fr0dders]

That doesnt even have an optical S/PDIF output so you couldnt put the video through the HDMI if you wanted to.

the Sony 2400ES can only mix optical audio and HDMI video.

Your only output on that card is Digital Coaxial or 7.1 3.5mm outputs (which the amp wont take) so the whole debate is pointless.

Just use the Digital Coaxial output and output via PCM.

 

[snowdog]

That doesnt even have an optical S/PDIF output so you couldnt put the video through the HDMI if you wanted to.

the Sony 2400ES can only mix optical audio and HDMI video.

Your only output on that card is Digital Coaxial or 7.1 3.5mm outputs (which the amp wont take) so the whole debate is pointless.

Just use the Digital Coaxial output and output via PCM.

http://us.store.creative.com/Sound-Blaster-Digital-IO-Module/M/B002DS2IRA.htm ?

I'm sorry to still sound uninformed but, why would I want to do that in the first place, I have no DTS HD or Dolby HD sources at all, and I doubt I will in the near future, in fact I couldn't give 2 nickles if it's HD or not, all I want is (low end, or even analog) stereo music played in stereo x4, and 5.1 input from games or regular DTS or other 5.1 mixes to be played as 5.1 with the correct channel coming from the correct speaker that's all... I bought the AV receiver so I could replace my speakers.

 

[SkeeterUK]

Dont games use Dolby HD?

Also i said it before u wont get the same sound as u get from a car sound system as its completely different environment which plays a large part to the experience u get from ur car to say in a bedroom.

That product u listed doesn't list the audigy 2 zs as compatible. Unless u have read people using it for said card.

 

[Fr0dders]

I bought the AV receiver so I could replace my speakers.

nevermind then

Just use it as an amp and ignore everything ive said, but your not using half the stuff it can do.

The thread is pointless anyway, since you cant get audio into your HDMI output on the graphics card and your receiver wont accept any inputs from your soundcard that will enable it to mix with HDMI video.

Dont games use Dolby HD?

Also i said it before u wont get the same sound as u get from a car sound system as its completely different environment which plays a large part to the experience u get from ur car to say in a bedroom.

That product u listed doesn't list the audigy 2 zs as compatible. Unless u have read people using it for said card.

not dolby HD, but some do output Dolby Digital, and all DVDs will be do Dolby digital as well, which will be better quality sent bitstream and decoded by the Receiver. But his soundcard cant do bitstream either, so its pointless discussing it.

 

[snowdog]

MrLOL, I've bought 2 optical cables (one for the tv one for the pc) today in preparation for the A/V receiver and tried it out with my onboard sound and Z5500's, I don't seem to be able to get 5.1 in many games any more through optical ( but analog is fine) and the only way I DO get 5.1 in is with DTS or Dolby digital/ac3 soundtracks in films ( since the Z5500's do decode dolby digital or DTS). Some googling shows I'll need a soundcard that can do Dolby live! to convert 5.1 from games into dolby digital, or a different format than spdif, is this correct, and if so, what sound card would you recommend to me ?

I don't want to lose 5.1 in games like CoD and will probably not use the A/V receiver at all if I can't have 5.1 in non dolby digital& non dts digital games, rather use my z5500's then through analog...

For example, CoD4, clearly set to 5.1 ingame, and my z5500 says it is receiving ''stereo'' through optical. It was fine through analog/direct...

Of course I have pro logic II, but that won't help me ''locate'' the enemy unlike when the game is directly sending 5.1...
So is there anyway to convert 5.1 discrete into ac3 or dts with my current hardware or do I need a new soundcard?

 

[snowdog]

Ahhh, looking at a picture of the back of my AV receiver, it DOES have Analog 5.1 (even 7.1) input, thought you said it didn't:

7.1 3.5mm outputs (which the amp wont take)

Do you guys see any issues running analog for 5.1 during games through my audigy 2zs, and through my onboard optical for dts&ac3 sources ( like films ?) I'm not really sure I have the money to buy a new sound card right now for dolby live. I have to do with the Ad1988 and Audigy 2zs in my pc...


EDIT: Seems to work fine with my z5500's after a couple of tests, DTS&Dolby digital over optical with VLC through the s/pdif on my onboard soundcard, and 5.1 discrete works fine in games too through the analog connection, all I have to do is press the input button on my z5500's to switch between games and film watching ( and of course have 2 connections running between my speakers/av receiver and the pc). The A/V receiver will behave in the same way won't it, simply change the imput and I get DTS/AC3 in films with that format, and still get 5.1 discrete through the analogs?

 

[SkeeterUK]

If your doing that u NEED that danial k driver for the audigy 2 as it fixes some problems. And no the ms driver isnt good enough its based on a old creative driver which is flawed. Sure ull hear sounds but nothing as it should be sounding.

http://forums.creative.com/t5/Sound-Blaster/SB-Audigy-Series-Support-Pack-3-8-04-19-2010/td-p/554398

Fixes and improvements:



- Fixes Windows crash (BSOD) when you restart, shutdown or suspend Windows with Encoder activated.

- Fixes high CPU usage when DTS Interactive encoder is enabled on Windows XP/Server2003.

- Fix the EAX Console installation error on Windows XP/Server2003.

- Removes the Microsoft Audio Home Theater Effects to (try to) fix the static issue when playing audio using DirectSound interface.

- Adds WaveRT interfaces for Windows 7/Vista

- DTS Interactive encoder now works on Windows XP without any tricks.

- Fixes a cosmetic issue on Audio Console, encoder status now says DTS Interactive.

- Readds support for 64-bit OpenAL and 64-bit ASIO.

- Fixes Microphone not available on Audigy1 cards on Windows 7 / Vista.

- Enables support for WASAPI exclusive-mode event-driven playback, seems to be working just fine.

- Fixes the enhancements errors in Windows mixer and Windows Media Player.

- Adds Microsoft Audio Home Theather Effects for both Speakers and S/PDIF Out endpoints.

- Includes Encoder Switcher to enable DTS Interactive on Audigy cards.

- Fixes the Audio Console "Internal application error" when enabling the DDL Encoder on localized installs.

- Updates Audio Console to display DTS Interactive in the Encoder tab when Encoder switcher is used.

- Workarounds a bug that unexpectedly resets the speaker configuration.

- Prevents an issue during installation on Windows 7/Vista that may result in low volume when certain enhancements are enabled.

- Implements Hardware CMSS Headphone by using a workaround.

- Updates all InstallShield setup scripts to support Windows 7.
- Fixes installation INI to properly install applications depending on the detected OS.
- Removes COM workaround for Equalizer, fixed by Creative.
- Adds workaround to a memory corruption issue preventing Equalizer from starting on Windows 7/Vista.
- Updates shared modules, responsiveness on certain applications is improved.
- Enables CMSS2 and Stereo Surround.
- Fixes 32-bit ASIO not working on Windows 7 x64.
- Fixes Encoder not available on Windows 7 x64 (related to fix above).
- Sets default speaker setting to 5.1 to properly reset configs to their defaults during install (fixes Bass and Treble leves not set to 50% on Windows 7 / Vista).







Undocumented fixes by Creative (not listed in the release notes):



- Fixes the 6.1 speaker configuration is incorrectly available on Windows 7 64-bit (documented).

- Fixes the Enable Dolby Digital Live checkbox not staying checked when Audio Console is closed.

- Fixes Equalizer Out of Memory error.
- Fixes Equalizer settings being lost on Windows 7 / Vista when speaker configuration is changed.
- Fixes low volume on Windows 7 / Vista when default format is set to anything higher than 16-bit, 48kHz.
- Fixes MIDI instruments in Melodic Pool not playing when speaker setting is higher than 2.1 speakers.
- Restores missing Microphone option in Surround Mixer (documented).
- Fixes Microphone mute, volume and +20db boost controls.

--

Ahhh, looking at a picture of the back of my AV receiver, it DOES have Analog 5.1 (even 7.1) input, thought you said it didn't:
Quote:
7.1 3.5mm outputs (which the amp wont take)

Snowy he said outputs not inputs. Just correcting you.
I have highlighted some of the fixes you probably would benefit from this driver package.