Any programmers here...?

[rz30]

C#, C++ VB.NET etc...

Most programmer jobs say 2 years of experience required or so ... etc but not all, some are pretty vague on what you need.

So say you are self taught in some of these languages to a level you think is pretty high, you see a job ad and think you can manage it technically although you have no commerical experience, are you ever likely to get a job in this case, could you talk your way into smoe kind of trial period.....?

Any tips here...?

 

[rz30]

I've got numerous programming languages/skills from university but not having the right experience seems to be a major thing for prospective employers.

Most jobs I see are looking for at least 2 years experience, which rules me out I'm afraid.

Bit of a catch 22, and there's loads of people in the same boat. If you do manage to even get an interview, count yourself lucky.

So you just keep trying or are you employed in another field......?

What level of programming skill do you have and in what languages?

 

[rz30]

Consider volunteering your time and skills to an open source project, then use that as experience - albeit non-commercial so some companies won't consider it.

You mean an online open source project...obvioulsy...?

Got any suggestions where to start looking there?

 

[rz30]

For the OP; what code are you comparing yours against to judge how good it is? Paste some examples here and I'm sure you'll find some people to pass critical comment on it.

Well you tell me how advanced you should be, OO programming fine, the ideas of Inheritance and Encapsulation are supposed to be advanced programming but are more of a philosphy or a structuring never-the-less i think i understand them fine....

Writing classes / dll's, activex, database apps, desktop apps is in VB.NET / C# is about as advanced i would get in these languages.

What exactly would you be programming, would you be bug testing, sifting through 100's of lines of code looking for errors or would you be writing desktop app's from scratch?

Would you be expected to do any low level programming, although you can't exactly go low level in .NET.....

I mean i could clone Mircosoft word in VB.NET, might take a while but... i could write a virus scanner in VB.NET. I could write a MSN messenger clone network type of app....

Pretty much anything desktop is that is doable in .NET i could do, i would need to refer to documention a bit though ...

 

[rz30]

I was in exactly the same boat, no commericial experience, only self taught and open source. I applied, had a telephone interview with questions like "Describe what an interface is" "What is encapsulation?" "Can you tell me what benefits using a class hierarchy has?" then an interview with 10 minutes of discussing my previous employment and why I want to move to development, 10 minutes of questions (I had to draw object relations and class diagrams - not UML but human readable) about half hour on the application of design patterns, agile development, working in team development, and then 3 hours of my personal interests.

But in short, apply for the damn jobs already.

3 hours on personal interests...?

How does that work, you basically tell them your life story....?

 

[rz30]

Should i put on my CV that i have been an amatuer prorgammer for about 3 years and i daily answer questions on a certain programming forum....or is this a bit naff?

Take this job for example, this looks ok to me, part of it is that they want their VB6 code ported to VB.NET, which would be an ideal job, just plough away at it, and you could do some at home as well...... Would they say to yuo , "ok here are 1000's lines of VB6 go and chaneg that to VB.NET" ?

Or would you have to sit down in a team for hours on end discussing what would be the best aproach to go about it etc etc, flow charts, system diagrams, OO, TTD...

It says experience with VB6, not commerical which i have...

What worries me though is that i may not fit into the team system, i tend to be quite independent and work best when i have the freedom to do what i think is best....

Our client is looking for a Degree qualified VB Programmer with a focus on PC applications running on Microsoft Windows operating systems. They offer an excellent opportunity for a person with a good qualification plus some previous experience to progress into a dynamic and exciting environment.

Tasks
Maintain and continue to grow existing software products currently written in Visual Basic 6
Migration of existing, and development of new, software products using other languages, C++, VB.NET, C# and application frameworks.
Work with the existing PC programmer to take over support for all existing code
Develop new applications on a variety of Windows platforms
Work under and in close co-operation with senior programmer whose focus is Embedded software
Assist in the design of new user interfaces, protocols and architectures across whole range of products
Work with third-party software programmers to ensure integration

Experience
Degree or HND in Software or Electronics (or related subject)
Experience programming with VB6 or VB.NET
Knowledge of Embedded systems
Experience of innovating ideas for GUIs (Graphical User Interfaces)
Experience with Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) programming

 

[rz30]

Other than it's a VB programmers job p) go for it. And yes, put down that you have had a "personal interest in programming", and "are/have been participating and contributing to open source projects for the past 3 years and counting"

Thanks again for that. You are obvioulsy a C++ God?

Posting on coding forums = open source, quite good never thought of it like that..

 

[rz30]

Smalltalk, not C++

and yes, posting solutions to other peoples problems counts as contributing, well at least it is in a lot of peoples eyes.

So in a standard day how much coding would you get done, are you building new designer apps for your office workers or are you debugging already written applications, i mean honestly what application hasn't already been written, there are millions of applications out there, this is where i am lacking in knowledge...?

 

[rz30]

We write bespoke software. We (all developers) are the ultimate problem solvers. Customers/Clients come to us, tell us of their business woes and we develop systems to fix that problem, or to at least automate the process.

Even the most basic of developers will end up providing at least a small bit of business consultancy to most customers. I'm yet to meet a customer that actually has a completely clear idea of what they are seeking, and it is my job to see they find their way.. by providing software that makes problems, bottlenecks, wastage come to light.

We use Scrum (a flavour of Agile) development to deliver functional software every sprint (usually 2 weeks) that the client has asked for. We don't necessarily argue with the customer of what they want, we let them have it, then they can see for themselves if it is what they truly wanted.

Every client we have had thus far have had new software from scratch, BUT we have reused classes, libraries, etc. from older apps, but every client needs something that will be unique to them.

The days of writing software that does everything under the sun is gone. Finely tuned and tailored software is the now.

Hmmm interesting, so can you give a specific example of software that one of your customers has asked for ....?

Also what would you think about a few guys getting together and setting up their own business possibly starting off based at home, offering software solutions in their chosen languages, could do some light advertising and see if we get any offers, you would have to declare all the legal and financial business side of things to the inland revenue of course as you would be starting a business but is it viable to have amatuer coders set up like this?

 

[rz30]

Hah, another Scrummer!

We use Scrum here too (4 week sprints) to deliver systems to the business.

I'd go the 'open source' route, but be prepared to give out specific details and urls for what work you have done.

The offer still stands of a code review if you have a sample piece of code/app that you have written...just to let you know if you are as hood as you think you are...the one thing you need to get right is just how to pitch your skills...too low and you'll be bored, too high and you'll be found out (potentially) or made to look an idiot in an interview (this happened to me a while ago and it still grates to this day.

Ok thanks, i will post some over the weekend, so watch this space, VB6 and VB.NET!