Anyone else simply just had enough?

[ForrestGrump]

Last year I'd gifted my 4080 super to my eldest, and went without for a few months. Towards the end of last year, I saw a deal on a 4070 TI super that I could not pass up. Sure, it wasn't my usual top tier brand that I buy. But then, neither was the 4080 super. And what I discovered was there is no difference between a top tier card, and a bottom tier card, other than the cooler.

And I have to wonder if a cooler is worth the same price as a 9800x3d. Do you think it is? I don't.

It was a gamble at the time. But given the performance of the 50 series cards, and all the driver issues they are having, and the crazy prices. I've never felt so vindicated. the 5080 is 15% faster than the 4080. Not the 4080 super. Which was 5-7% faster than the 4080. The 4070 ti super is 12% slower than the 4080 super. The 5080 is going for what the 4090 was priced at. I mean, come on.

And it's not even the just the price. It's much much more as well. All the driver issues. All the games using UE 5. All the poor optimisation. All the Windows issues. All the boring AAA games that are nothing but money grabs, poorly optimised, and just boring, because they are nothing but the same games you've played 5 or 6 times already.

There isn't a game that's been released in the past few years by the AAA studios that interests me. Even Civ 7 doesn't appeal to me. Because the price went up, the content was lowered, and the game itself is a shadow of what came beforehand. I cannot believe I didn't buy Civ 7 day one. I have a boxed collection going back to Civ 1 on the Amiga. I've put easily 10,000 hours in that franchise. Easily. Even with the latest patch, there are still features that have been present since day 1 that are unavailable. It's been months since its release. $120, and counting. Civ 6 cost me $60 for the high end one with an actual flag, and other goodies only 10 years ago. And had more features.

Why am I paying considerably more, for less.

Why is anyone paying ASUS $500 for a cooler on their GPU that doesn't actually affect real world performance in any shape or form than the same GPU from another brand.

You look around all the retailers, and you can pick up a 50 series card, easily. From all brands. Right across the board. And 90% of them are in stock. Certainly not the case with the 40 series. Nor the 30 series.

And that delights me, because it's not just me who feels the same way. I have the money. That's not an issue. But that doesn't mean I'm prepared to get fleeced spending $500 more than I did for my 4080 super, for a 5080 that's barely faster than it when there are countless 5080s just sat around on shelves, at every retailer, with every brand available. Something that wasn't the case when I managed to find my 4080 super.

I'm not a mug. There corporations simply don't get it. PC gaming has doubled in price, and you're simply not getting double the performance, or the enjoyment from it. If anything, it's actually a step back.

Do you know what, I have never cared less about having the latest and greatest. There's no games that I must have. I'm sick of dealing with Windows/Launchers/Driver issues. I'm sick of playing games that are boring. And lock away content with day one DLC. I'm done with it.

In fact, I dug out my old water cooled i9 9900k rig, with its Lion Li o11 Dynamic case. Along with its MSI gaming trio 4080 super. Gave it a spruce up. Installed a bunch of emulators on it, along with my own customer front end. Hooked up it to the LG Oled in the living room, and everyone is having a blast playing 40 years of historical gaming. I fired up a snowboarding game for the gamecube. Everyone loved it. People could hardly wait for their turn again.

You show me a modern game that has that appeal. A game you could pick up, having never played before, and within 2 or 3 turns, you're getting good at. And is fun. Rather than sit through 3 hours of tutorials that teaches you the game mechanics, which you immediately forget the moment you're dropped into the game world, because it's been hours since you were taught was the x+b buttons do.

Apologies for the long rant. But I've had enough of modern gaming. It's overpriced and it's boring. And frustrating.

Having said all of that, I feel much better. After all, I've got 40 years of historical gaming to enjoy. I can sit this current state of affairs out for the rest of my life if need be.

FOMO be damned, it's just not worth it.

 

[deviation]

Regarding drivers, I cannot remember a time when they've ever been perfect, be it out the gate or later on randomly having issues, that's just the joys of drivers regardless of brand.
Price wise, it is what it is, they know we'll pay it, and there's nothing we can do about it. Because we give in. These after all, are luxury items that we do not need, but want. So we pay.
We will never win, and they will never get cheaper.

 

[ForrestGrump]

Price wise, it is what it is, they know we'll pay it, and there's nothing we can do about it. Because we give in. These after all, are luxury items that we do not need, but want. So we pay.

The stock on the shelves says otherwise.

 

[deviation]

The stock on the shelves says otherwise.

Either way, it's not going to stop people buying things they don't need. So this just falls on deaf ears.

 

[no_1_dave]

The difference between a 4070 TI Super and a 5080 is just using DLSS on performance instead of balanced, or balanced instead of quality.
And with DLSS 4, they look the same

You are right about games, modern games just aren't as fun as as games used to be. Although some of that is nostalgia. There are games I remember being amazing which I've gone back to now and not even been able to play for 5 minutes without wanting to switch it off and do something else. I think it's just part of getting older tbh. Very few games nowadays really grip me like they used to when I was in my teens and early 20s.

 

[ForrestGrump]

Either way, it's not going to stop people buying things they don't need. So this just falls on deaf ears.

We're still talking about a GPU with a $500 markup that performs the same as one $500 cheaper, right? In an economy where putting heating on for some people is now a luxury. Where a simple McDonalds cost 50% more than it did a few years ago. If it was just the price of GPU's that's increased, then you might have a point. But not in this economy my learned friend. Say what you like about ears, doesn't change the fact your eyes can see all the available stock, just sat there.

 

[deviation]

The difference between a 4070 TI Super and a 5080 is just using DLSS on performance instead of balanced, or balanced instead of quality.
And with DLSS 4, they look the same

You are right about games, modern games just aren't as fun as as games used to be. Although some of that is nostalgia. There are games I remember being amazing which I've gone back to now and not even been able to play for 5 minutes without wanting to switch it off and do something else. I think it's just part of getting older tbh. Very few games nowadays really grip me like they used to when I was in my teens and early 20s.

Having replayed older games recently, nicely upscaled etc, I think new games do offer a more relaxed ease into it, but then saying that stuff like Dark Souls/Elden Ring, are just punishing for the sake of it being a fade to annoy you then say you're the 1% that beat that without uninstalling it, type craze.
But overall, I find modern games are a lot more forgiving, having as I say replayed a fair few older games recently, and older console stuff, they definitely are a lot harder, and you can't just replay that section quickly and pass it, unlike modern games.
Modern games story telling is also a lot more immersive, thanks to the modern graphics/sound...
I think it is just an age bias to be honest.
I definitely wouldn't say I've had more or less fun, switching between new and old games.

 

[deviation]

We're still talking about a GPU with a $500 markup that performs the same as one $500 cheaper, right? In an economy where putting heating on for some people is now a luxury. Where a simple McDonalds cost 50% more than it did a few years ago. If it was just the price of GPU's that's increased, then you might have a point. But not in this economy my learned friend. Say what you like about ears, doesn't change the fact your eyes can see all the available stock, just sat there.

That's all very well, but if we didn't have DLSS and frame generation, that cheaper GPU would not perform the same. Then you'd still be moaning about it's performance versus it's price difference to the more expensive card, just in a different way, despite it being cheaper? So you'll never win either way.
Although stuff isn't great, at least we have ways of combatting the poor optimisation modern games lack, due to rushing and laziness, still, it's always been a thing, be it Far Cry, Crysis etc etc - we all would have loved to have FSR/DLSS/Frame Generation/Reflex back in the Far Cry days...

 

[ForrestGrump]

The difference between a 4070 TI Super and a 5080 is just using DLSS on performance instead of balanced, or balanced instead of quality.
And with DLSS 4, they look the same

You are right about games, modern games just aren't as fun as as games used to be. Although some of that is nostalgia. There are games I remember being amazing which I've gone back to now and not even been able to play for 5 minutes without wanting to switch it off and do something else. I think it's just part of getting older tbh. Very few games nowadays really grip me like they used to when I was in my teens and early 20s.

Try playing the games from 15+ years ago that you wanted to, but never did. I never owned a gamecube. My friends did. So I played some of the games I remember them having. And explored some the gamecube catalogue. There are some bangers. Retro gaming doesn't always mean replaying the games from your youth. It means playing the games you didn't buy at the time, on a console you didn't own because you had a different one.

There's where the true fun is.

 

[deviation]

Try playing the games from 15+ years ago that you wanted to, but never did. I never owned a gamecube. My friends did. So I played some of the games I remember them having. And explored some the gamecube catalogue. There are some bangers. Retro gaming doesn't always mean replaying the games from your youth. It means playing the games you didn't buy at the time, on a console you didn't own because you had a different one.

There's where the true fun is.

Retro just means older, the fun IS the variety, I totally agree. Although replaying the stuff that you did own or lusted over in XYZ generation, but with added visuals/resolution/controller support, thanks to emulation, makes for an awesome experience!

 

[ForrestGrump]

That's all very well, but if we didn't have DLSS and frame generation, that cheaper GPU would not perform the same. Then you'd still be moaning about it's performance versus it's price difference to the more expensive card, just in a different way, despite it being cheaper? So you'll never win either way.
Although stuff isn't great, at least we have ways of combatting the poor optimisation modern games lack, due to rushing and laziness, still, it's always been a thing, be it Far Cry, Crysis etc etc - we all would have loved to have FSR/DLSS/Frame Generation/Reflex back in the Far Cry days...

Huh?

Are you actually saying a $1000 5080 from Pallit is going to be noticeable different than a $1500 5080 from Asus?

I can't take you seriously if that's what you think. As it that point, I could pull all the graphs to show otherwise, and you'll only do a Rachel Reeves on me and start crying. And I don't want that. So, let's leave it there. I'll not reply to you after that walloper. What's the point. What's the point in debating with someone who clearly has no understanding, nor desire to do so.

 

[deviation]

Huh?

Are you actually saying a $1000 5080 from Pallit is going to be noticeable different than a $1500 5080 from Asus?

I can't take you seriously if that's what you think. As it that point, I could pull all the graphs to show otherwise, and you'll only do a Rachel Reeves on me and start crying. And I don't want that. So, let's leave it there. I'll not reply to you after that walloper. What's the point. What's the point in debating with someone who clearly has no understanding, nor desire to do so.

When did I ever make that specific reference. Never.

I just referenced the fact that @no_1_dave said:

The difference between a 4070 TI Super and a 5080 is just using DLSS on performance instead of balanced, or balanced instead of quality.
And with DLSS 4, they look the same

Thus the reason the 4070Ti Super can match the 5080 is due to DLSS4. That was a valid point.

I think you need to go get some fresh air and stop worrying about 1st world problems to be honest, you could afford 2 expensive modern GPU's, to the extend you even gave one away for free to someone, if that's all you have to worry about, then you should be happy. At worst you could have refunded the 4070Ti Super, and gone back to something you deem worthy of your money.

I agreed with you regarding retro gaming above, along with stating that we all agree we're being ripped off, which you ignored, so I'm not biased in the slightest?

So let's calm down a bit and not go down the route of bringing up political opinions, as that's quite frankly boring, and unoriginal, and no-one cares. You're not goin to win anyones opinion as a new member hurling abuse at people on here. Especially not about first world problems.

So relax

 

[Rogueywon]

We're still talking about a GPU with a $500 markup that performs the same as one $500 cheaper, right? In an economy where putting heating on for some people is now a luxury. Where a simple McDonalds cost 50% more than it did a few years ago. If it was just the price of GPU's that's increased, then you might have a point. But not in this economy my learned friend. Say what you like about ears, doesn't change the fact your eyes can see all the available stock, just sat there.

In this same economy, there are still people happy to spend six-figure sums on a car when they're subject to the same speed limits as somebody in a Kia. Even with GPU prices how they are, gaming is a cheap hobby compared to many. If people value the looks of a "higher end" AIB brand or feel they'd trust a card with a fancier cooler more, then let them spend their money on it.

Personally, I've always been happy with a Palit or Inno3D, but I don't in any way resent those who want an Astral.

 

[G J]

Intresting thing thing is that I dont pay attention really to the 5090 models but I know exactly what the Astral is and thats all down to people talking about it good or bad.

Asus must be happy with all the free marketing they get from it, even if its expensive.

 

[varkanoid]

It means playing the games you didn't buy at the time, on a console you didn't own because you had a different one.

or playing the games you couldnt afford to buy as a kid. When Mazogs came out for the ZX81 it was £9.99 in Boots (yes they used to sell computer games) and I looked longingly at the box but couldnt afford it. £9.99 was a lot of money especially to a kid its like £99.99 now (not accurate but feels like it) Couple of years ago I remembered that game I couldnt buy fired up a ZX81 Emulator and tried it. 3D Maze too. Brought back memories. Always a disappointment back then when you look at the game box art and then the actual game tho Art did not equal graphics.

 

[mid_gen]

People got so spoiled in the 90s/00s when hardware performance gains were easily obtained with every die shrink, which came long easily enough, when the fabs didn't cost the same as a small country.

Anyone expecting anything more than incremental hardware improvements is just not living in reality. Do people think nVidia are just sitting on some magic tech to give double performance from the same power budget or something?

 

[melmac]

Last year I'd gifted my 4080 super to my eldest, and went without for a few months. Towards the end of last year, I saw a deal on a 4070 TI super that I could not pass up. Sure, it wasn't my usual top tier brand that I buy. But then, neither was the 4080 super. And what I discovered was there is no difference between a top tier card, and a bottom tier card, other than the cooler.

And I have to wonder if a cooler is worth the same price as a 9800x3d. Do you think it is? I don't.

It was a gamble at the time. But given the performance of the 50 series cards, and all the driver issues they are having, and the crazy prices. I've never felt so vindicated. the 5080 is 15% faster than the 4080. Not the 4080 super. Which was 5-7% faster than the 4080. The 4070 ti super is 12% slower than the 4080 super. The 5080 is going for what the 4090 was priced at. I mean, come on.

And it's not even the just the price. It's much much more as well. All the driver issues. All the games using UE 5. All the poor optimisation. All the Windows issues. All the boring AAA games that are nothing but money grabs, poorly optimised, and just boring, because they are nothing but the same games you've played 5 or 6 times already.

There isn't a game that's been released in the past few years by the AAA studios that interests me. Even Civ 7 doesn't appeal to me. Because the price went up, the content was lowered, and the game itself is a shadow of what came beforehand. I cannot believe I didn't buy Civ 7 day one. I have a boxed collection going back to Civ 1 on the Amiga. I've put easily 10,000 hours in that franchise. Easily. Even with the latest patch, there are still features that have been present since day 1 that are unavailable. It's been months since its release. $120, and counting. Civ 6 cost me $60 for the high end one with an actual flag, and other goodies only 10 years ago. And had more features.

Why am I paying considerably more, for less.

Why is anyone paying ASUS $500 for a cooler on their GPU that doesn't actually affect real world performance in any shape or form than the same GPU from another brand.

You look around all the retailers, and you can pick up a 50 series card, easily. From all brands. Right across the board. And 90% of them are in stock. Certainly not the case with the 40 series. Nor the 30 series.

And that delights me, because it's not just me who feels the same way. I have the money. That's not an issue. But that doesn't mean I'm prepared to get fleeced spending $500 more than I did for my 4080 super, for a 5080 that's barely faster than it when there are countless 5080s just sat around on shelves, at every retailer, with every brand available. Something that wasn't the case when I managed to find my 4080 super.

I'm not a mug. There corporations simply don't get it. PC gaming has doubled in price, and you're simply not getting double the performance, or the enjoyment from it. If anything, it's actually a step back.

Do you know what, I have never cared less about having the latest and greatest. There's no games that I must have. I'm sick of dealing with Windows/Launchers/Driver issues. I'm sick of playing games that are boring. And lock away content with day one DLC. I'm done with it.

In fact, I dug out my old water cooled i9 9900k rig, with its Lion Li o11 Dynamic case. Along with its MSI gaming trio 4080 super. Gave it a spruce up. Installed a bunch of emulators on it, along with my own customer front end. Hooked up it to the LG Oled in the living room, and everyone is having a blast playing 40 years of historical gaming. I fired up a snowboarding game for the gamecube. Everyone loved it. People could hardly wait for their turn again.

You show me a modern game that has that appeal. A game you could pick up, having never played before, and within 2 or 3 turns, you're getting good at. And is fun. Rather than sit through 3 hours of tutorials that teaches you the game mechanics, which you immediately forget the moment you're dropped into the game world, because it's been hours since you were taught was the x+b buttons do.

Apologies for the long rant. But I've had enough of modern gaming. It's overpriced and it's boring. And frustrating.

Having said all of that, I feel much better. After all, I've got 40 years of historical gaming to enjoy. I can sit this current state of affairs out for the rest of my life if need be.

FOMO be damned, it's just not worth it.

Your post is all over the place. And most of it can be explained by one simple thing. You are getting older and looking at the past through some very rose tinted lenses. You have 40 years of historical gaming to enjoy? Just like now, back then there were some good games, some great games and whole lot of games that were bang average or worse.

The bit of your post that sticks out to me is the line saying that you never cared for the latest or greatest? If that's the case why you are even worrying about the 5xxx cards? Why do you feel vindicated about not buying something that you say you have no interest in anyway? Buying the latest and the greatest has always been a mugs game. And paying more for one brand over the other has existed since graphic cards began and isn't just confined to the GPU market. People pay extra for certain brands.

And you say that nobody is buying the latest cards compared to the 4xxx series and 3xxx series is like completely forgetting what was going on at the time. The 3xxx cards were released at the time of the one of the biggest mining booms and during Covid. Demand for those cards was at an all time high. The 4xxx cards didn't sell nearly as well and didn't have as much stock available following on from the shortages after covid. I am sure the 5xxx cards aren't selling as much as the 3xxx cards. But having stock available is getting back to the days before Covid when it wasn't unusual to go into a shop or go online and see lots of stock for sale.
Just over a month ago, weren't you the guy recommending an upgrade from a 4070Ti Super to a 5080 and saying it's only money and people spend more than that on a night out? Which brings us to prices. I touched on the brand thing earlier. But in general prices are getting much higher in everything. Bread for example has almost tripled in price since 2000. People buying graphics cards have always paid big money for small increases. Look at the price of the 8800 GTX and the 8800GTX Ultra. Or the Titan cards. Or the difference throughout the years of any of the top tier cards vs the lower tiered cards. The value was always in buying the mid range and lower cards. The price increase as you go up the tiers has always been at odds with the actual performance increase. The high end GPU purchaser has almost always been shafted.

Getting back to games, modern games that are fun, that you can play without having to learn too much. There are so many. What type of games do you find fun? Snowboarding? There are tons of really good snowboarding games with easy controls on Steam. Fall Guys, It takes Two, Amoung US, Pinball FX, Hades, Balatro, One game for free on Epic this week, Back Pack Hero, and, well could go on and on. Or how about more AA type games with simple controls that are enjoyable. Balders Gate 3, Doom, Borderlands(1,2 and 3) Plague Tale games, Disco Elysium, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Again, could list a lot more.

The truth is you are looking at the past with nostalgia. There are tons of games out there now. There has never been a wider selection and indie developers are making better games than ever. If variety and getting off the well trodden path of AAA games is what you are looking for, Indie games are the answer.

TLDR: You are just getting older. This fatigue has happened most of us. I got back my love of gaming from VR and realised that the problem was me not the current games.

 

[JonRGV250]

When Mazogs came out for the ZX81 it was £9.99 in Boots (yes they used to sell computer games) and I looked longingly at the box but couldnt afford it.

I was the same with Sabre Wulf, then my nan bought it for me, best day ever.

 

[Seearbe]

People got so spoiled in the 90s/00s when hardware performance gains were easily obtained with every die shrink, which came long easily enough, when the fabs didn't cost the same as a small country.

Anyone expecting anything more than incremental hardware improvements is just not living in reality. Do people think nVidia are just sitting on some magic tech to give double performance from the same power budget or something?

I guess that's a perspective that many people haven't considered, myself included to an extent. We can complain all we like about the price of things but perhaps it's just a case that technology development is at the top end of diminishing returns, as much as the top-end cards represent diminishing returns. We're asking a lot of technology to deliver more realistic raytraced rendering at 144+FPS on much more complex models, then complain when it costs money, complain when the GPU can't deliver, complain that DLSS etc is just a fix rather than "real" performance etc. So you choose whether you want to pay the extra for a better cooler that delivers higher OC out the box, or not. Don't expect sympathy if you fell for the false promises of marketing that have been told over several generations of GPU.

 

[andybird123]

The stock on the shelves says otherwise.

we're in a situation where the new cards are on the same process node as the "old" cards, so they aren't in effect new cards at all but just mildly massaged ones, like super supers, so most people with 40xx's aren't bothering... when they actually have a node shrink then normal service will resume, until they try to pull the same stunt again

I also skipped the 7xx series, because that was the same, 680 and780 on 28nm

9xx was also on 28nm but they actually made the chips bigger with the 9's