Anyone game with HDR?

bigmike20vt · 14 Feb 2019 at 12:47

I have a Sony 65XE9305 gaming TV and when using console HDR looks fantastic.

however on PC it looks so washed out. i have fiddled with tv settings but just cant get it right (compared to PS4pro where it just works)

i have disabled it on desktop as i believe it is a common complaint that it is rubbish in windows but for instance with destiny 2.

parts look amazing, but other areas look washed out. I am convinced it is a settings thing but cant fathom it.

in the brightness settings in destiny 2 there are 2 sliders, and you have to make the middle of 3 icons "barely visable"

the 2nd one, setting up the black scale, it works fine, but on the 1st one, setting up the white scale, no matter what i do all 3 icons are clearly visible. i think this is my problem.... and why bright scenes are washed out.

you would think turning tv brightness down would fix it but it does not seem to be the case. I cant believe i am the only one with issues here, please help. (i am loath to give up on HDR because the parts that work well are incredible imo)

Thanks.

AWPC · 14 Feb 2019 at 13:36

HDR on PC is an absolute mess! I bought an Xbox1X as got so fed up with it in the end.

You need a cable which is capable of supporting it for starters not just any HDMI cable but one which supports the bandwidth for HDR which @ 4K is 18Gbps. Then you need a HDR compatible GPU & motherboard as well & it only works on Windows 10.

bigmike20vt · 14 Feb 2019 at 14:10

AWPC said:
HDR on PC is an absolute mess! I bought an Xbox1X as got so fed up with it in the end.

You need a cable which is capable of supporting it for starters not just any HDMI cable but one which supports the bandwidth for HDR which @ 4K is 18Gbps. Then you need a HDR compatible GPU & motherboard as well & it only works on Windows 10.

so i think i tick all the boxes there..... however is there a way to find out if my HDR cables are what is causing me my issues? ie do you know what happens if it is not working properly (black "out of range" type screen or will it just be reduced colours or lighing data making it through?.
this is the cable I have. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014I8TC4E

malachi · 14 Feb 2019 at 14:38

bigmike20vt said:
so i think i tick all the boxes there..... however is there a way to find out if my HDR cables are what is causing me my issues? ie do you know what happens if it is not working properly (black "out of range" type screen or will it just be reduced colours or lighing data making it through?.
this is the cable I have. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014I8TC4E

Dont know if it makes any difference but I purchased these last week when I upgraded to my OLED 4K HDR

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CSL-Ethern...YWZWMCZNSZJ&psc=1&refRID=DZ10A3S1FYWZWMCZNSZJ

HDR with Forza on my Vega 64 looks to be working fine.

SS-89 · 14 Feb 2019 at 14:42

Yep I do on my LG Oled. Can't help on the issue you have I'm afraid as I have never had to individually adjust games to work with HDR. Destiny 2 works flawlessly for me. Is this affecting all games or just Destiny 2? I know that it has particularly strong contrasting areas which may be stressing the local dimming of the XE930 and creating blooming which can present as washed out image (one of the pitfalls of backlit based set).

bigmike20vt said:
so i think i tick all the boxes there..... however is there a way to find out if my HDR cables are what is causing me my issues? ie do you know what happens if it is not working properly (black "out of range" type screen or will it just be reduced colours or lighing data making it through?.
this is the cable I have. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014I8TC4E

The cable is fine, I use the same, they are high speed 18gbps cables.

kedge · 14 Feb 2019 at 14:50

AWPC said:
HDR on PC you need a HDR compatible GPU & motherboard as well & it only works on Windows 10.

HDR Mainboard?

AWPC · 14 Feb 2019 at 14:57

bigmike20vt said:
so i think i tick all the boxes there..... however is there a way to find out if my HDR cables are what is causing me my issues? ie do you know what happens if it is not working properly (black "out of range" type screen or will it just be reduced colours or lighing data making it through?.
this is the cable I have. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B014I8TC4E

Sorry there is no way to check that I know of. Sounds like its a cable issue buy those linked to in the other post HDMI 2.0 supports 4K HDR for sure! They are so cheap but work really well I have an 18ft one which is perfect and a fraction of the cost of known brands.

Try using your PS4 HDMI cable on the PC to eliminate that as the issue perhaps beforehand.

Also look at the Win 10 HDR tools from MS which are now enabled as std.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4040263/windows-10-hdr-advanced-color-settings

Like I originally said HDR on PC is a nightmare :rolleyes:

unless you have the exact spec of MS HDR supported HDTV, GPU, Motherboard & cable. I just gave up in the end bought an Xbox1X & got out of the box HDR & can playback 4K UHD HDR discs for less than the cost of the PC UHD Optical Disc drive & Software!

AWPC · 14 Feb 2019 at 15:07

kedge said:
HDR Mainboard?

Yep you need an Intel IGPU apparently as that is the only HDR capable device allowed by the Intel-MS Playready DRM scheme :rolleyes:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...ady-3-0-mandates-hardware-drm-for-4k-playback
https://www.microsoft.com/playready/features/EnhancedContentProtection.aspx
https://www.pcworld.com/article/290...t-plan-to-lock-down-4k-movies-to-your-pc.html

Intel & MS are very secretive about this getting reliable info is almost impossible :rolleyes:

I concluded AMD is excluded as that was my findings because my 1920X Threadripper CPU & X399 motherboard does not include an Intel GPU on the motherboard so cannot playback Playready 3.0 DRM protected content.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12442/amd-plans-playready-3-support-for-polaris-and-vega-gpus-in-2018

Some PC games bypass MS HDR to allow HDR on PC by going direct to the hardware which is why they can hard lock if your display does not meet the HDR requirements.

Total nightmare all because Intel & MS wanted to keep their cartel's going for as long as possible so as always the consumer suffers! Not sure how easy they are going to make it for AMD to get their devices certified into the Playready DRM supported hardware list despite MS allowing the Xbox1X to use HDR with an AMD GPU effectively using a cutdown version of Win 10 as its OS :rolleyes:

VincentHanna · 14 Feb 2019 at 15:18

HDR used to be a mess on PC, but recently it seems to work fine for me - I use it on Forza Horizon 4, Resident Evil 2 etc.

There is a slider in windows to sort out the washed out looking desktop.

Using an LG65B6 OLED and 2080Ti

Cromulent · 15 Feb 2019 at 19:04

AWPC said:
Yep you need an Intel IGPU apparently as that is the only HDR capable device allowed by the Intel-MS Playready DRM scheme

That only applies to playing 4k Blu-rays. You can use HDR in games without an Intel GPU (I know because I've done it myself). My HDR monitor works perfectly in games that support HDR with the latest release of Windows 10.

hyperseven · 15 Feb 2019 at 21:43

Cromulent said:
That only applies to playing 4k Blu-rays. You can use HDR in games without an Intel GPU (I know because I've done it myself). My HDR monitor works perfectly in games that support HDR with the latest release of Windows 10.

thought it was for Netflix :confused:

Cromulent · 16 Feb 2019 at 08:04

hyperseven said:
thought it was for Netflix

HDR works fine on Netflix as well. You just need to use the Windows 10 app rather than the website.

willhub · 16 Feb 2019 at 17:18

It's a nightmare I find, just doesn't work properly at all. Seems to be worse with NV over AMD

MentalSharps · 23 Feb 2019 at 18:05

The AmazonBasics HDMI cables can't achieve 18Gbs from 4.5m length and upwards, it's a bit misleading them claiming "HDMI 2.0 compatible".

There are cables that have a little HDMI 2.0 official certification logo on the front, it's a QR code you can scan that gives you details about the individual cables testing, to prevent fakes. The cables cost a little more because they had to pay for the official certification, but it's only a few quid. eg 5m cable for £13 from a brand called Antiference. Upwards of 5m gets pricey though, seems like it's hard to maintain 18Gbs bandwith at that length, and requires fibreoptic cables which cost a bomb.

Which GPU do you have OP?

hyperseven · 23 Feb 2019 at 19:22

MentalSharps said:
The AmazonBasics HDMI cables can't achieve 18Gbs from 4.5m length and upwards, it's a bit misleading them claiming "HDMI 2.0 compatible".

There are cables that have a little HDMI 2.0 official certification logo on the front, it's a QR code you can scan that gives you details about the individual cables testing, to prevent fakes. The cables cost a little more because they had to pay for the official certification, but it's only a few quid. eg 5m cable for £13 from a brand called Antiference. Upwards of 5m gets pricey though, seems like it's hard to maintain 18Gbs bandwith at that length, and requires fibreoptic cables which cost a bomb.

Which GPU do you have OP?

fibreoptic for what :confused:

I use a 10m Kabledirect normal HDMI cable with no issues.

MentalSharps · 23 Feb 2019 at 21:13

hyperseven said:
fibreoptic for what I use a 10m Kabledirect normal HDMI cable with no issues.

You might only be getting 4:2:0 colour sampling at 4K 10 bit then, you won't be able to get 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 unless you drop to 30hz or lower, because the full 18GB/s bandwith is needed it pushes the spec to the limit

To get the full spec of HDMI 2.0b at 10m is difficult, just look for the ones that are able to pass the "premium certified" testing at that length, they're not cheap.

I don't know that brand Kabledirect, it could well be that they meet the spec, but don't bother paying for the certification to keep the price down.

But AmazonBasics don't meet the specs from 4.5m length upwards, they start to have problems with artifacts and drop outs.

hyperseven · 23 Feb 2019 at 21:21

MentalSharps said:
You might only be getting 4:2:0 colour sampling at 4K 10 bit then, you won't be able to get 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 unless you drop to 30hz or lower, because the full 18GB/s bandwith is needed it pushes the spec to the limit (beyond even..up to 20Gb/s)

To get the full spec of HDMI 2.0 at 10m is difficult, just look for the ones that are able to pass the "premium certified" testing at that length, they're not cheap, £25-30 minimum.

I don't know that brand Kabledirect, it could well be that they meet the spec, but don't bother paying for the certification to keep the price down.

But AmazonBasics don't meet the specs from 4.5m length upwards, they start to have problems with artifacts and drop outs.

nope less than £20 when I bought it and works fine.
https://kabeldirekt-store.de/index....-speed-hdmi-label-mit-ethernet.html?laenge=43

MentalSharps · 24 Feb 2019 at 00:34

hyperseven said:
nope less than £20 when I bought it and works fine.
https://kabeldirekt-store.de/index....-speed-hdmi-label-mit-ethernet.html?laenge=43

Interesting. Can you post a screenshot of your desktop with NVIDIA control panel open showing that your desktop is running at 4K 60hz RGB Full and no artifacts present on screen? Because I'm 99.9% certain that it's not possible to pass premium certification on standard HDMI cables over 7.5m.

Would be happy to be wrong though and I'd pick one up if it was the case

hyperseven · 24 Feb 2019 at 14:45

MentalSharps said:
Interesting. Can you post a screenshot of your desktop with NVIDIA control panel open showing that your desktop is running at 4K 60hz RGB Full and no artifacts present on screen? Because I'm 99.9% certain that it's not possible to pass premium certification on standard HDMI cables over 7.5m.

Would be happy to be wrong though and I'd pick one up if it was the case

Will do. Should be back home mid week.

bigmike20vt · 25 Feb 2019 at 14:34

MentalSharps said:
The AmazonBasics HDMI cables can't achieve 18Gbs from 4.5m length and upwards, it's a bit misleading them claiming "HDMI 2.0 compatible".

There are cables that have a little HDMI 2.0 official certification logo on the front, it's a QR code you can scan that gives you details about the individual cables testing, to prevent fakes. The cables cost a little more because they had to pay for the official certification, but it's only a few quid. eg 5m cable for £13 from a brand called Antiference. Upwards of 5m gets pricey though, seems like it's hard to maintain 18Gbs bandwith at that length, and requires fibreoptic cables which cost a bomb.

Which GPU do you have OP?

Hi
I have a gigabyte gtx 1080ti.

I wonder then if this is the cause of my issues? however that said i had the same image quality problems when i used a shorter cable. This one is now boxed into my wall, which is why i had to go as long as i did.