Anyone use App-V?

steinooo · 1 Nov 2013 at 10:21

Hi all,

I am wondering if any OCukers use App-V for delivering applications e.g. from a datacentre over a WAN to a remote site?

I looked at streaming apps through Citrix Xenapp 6.0/6.5 to combat user's hatred of published desktops and to see if streaming gives an experience which masks network drop outs a little, but I soon found out that actually these days Citrix send people down the App-V route.

Baz · 2 Nov 2013 at 10:54

Citrix aren't necessarily telling people to use App-V, Xenapp 6.5 still out performs App-V, the protocols used are far better. However moving to Xendesktop 7, the applications are kinda delivered by App-V, as Xenapp has been removed totally.

I would still use Xenapp over App-V at the moment though. Depends on what you need.

Why do the users hate published desktops, if set up correctly, they should look and feel exactly like Windows 7 :s

steinooo · 3 Nov 2013 at 18:53

Baz said:
Citrix aren't necessarily telling people to use App-V, Xenapp 6.5 still out performs App-V, the protocols used are far better. However moving to Xendesktop 7, the applications are kinda delivered by App-V, as Xenapp has been removed totally.

I would still use Xenapp over App-V at the moment though. Depends on what you need.

Why do the users hate published desktops, if set up correctly, they should look and feel exactly like Windows 7 :s

Users dislike:

Lack of "native" app feel due to no processing done on the local machine
Disconnected sessions when the WAN has a blip
Lack of customisation (heavy lock down policy which I know I could change)

Interesting to hear you'd still use XA 6.5 to stream apps over App-V. I presume by better protocols you refer to the slimmer bandwidth requirement of ICA over RDP?

Baz · 3 Nov 2013 at 19:09

steinooo said:
Users dislike:

Lack of "native" app feel due to no processing done on the local machine

Disconnected sessions when the WAN has a blip

Lack of customisation (heavy lock down policy which I know I could change)

Interesting to hear you'd still use XA 6.5 to stream apps over App-V. I presume by better protocols you refer to the slimmer bandwidth requirement of ICA over RDP?

On the first point, if done correct, users wont know that they are on a remote desktop

on the second, not much you can do about it, Citrix do have "offline" apps like App-v has now, and Session reliability works to a degree of course, if set up right, WAN blips should be no problem.

On the third point, there are several Citrix created GPO's that you can use (to create them, go to http://support.citrix.com/article/CTX133429 , one is a locked down desktop, another is a customisable desktop/start menu. If using Roaming Profiles, and folder redirection, you can allow users to change desktop, customise settings etc.

I don't 'use' Xenapp as such, I am a Consultant, so all I do is Citrix products, as well as Appsense, AppDNA, Lakeside, etc.

steinooo · 3 Nov 2013 at 20:13

1) I don't see how on poor bandwidth links
No matter how many tweaks I've tried on the client and server I've never managed to get a "native like" feel. Have you seen desktops performing snappy and latency free on a poor wan link?

2) this is exactly what I'm trying to get more info on....offline apps. I hear that streaming injects portions of the app into the local profile on the client, giving a native like feel and allowing blips in the wan due to the portion being kept on the client machine. Do you suggest any course, book, forum for me to read up on this stuff?

3) I knew this was possible with gpos but nevertheless it is a complaint.....but just not one I'm particularly willing to compromise on too much just yet.

Baz · 3 Nov 2013 at 21:10

1) a properly configured Xenapp ICA session is around 20 kb/sec, if you look within the Citrix policies, there are some templates designed for low bandwidth connections. No good having audio, client redirection of everything turned on, wasting bandwith, turn off all but the essentials they need. Ideally, turn everything off, lock it down, then create User groups in AD for each item you want to turn on, and link to a Citrix Policy.

2) Look on here for session reliability and ICA keep alive, http://support.citrix.com/proddocs/topic/xenapp65-admin/ps-sessions-sess-rel-v2.html the offline applications require the offline receiver as well. It is called 'streamed to client' and the edocs are here, http://support.citrix.com/proddocs/topic/technologies/app-streaming-wrapper.html I believe it is included within the Xenapp 6.5 media.

3) I'm with you, I don't like to give users too much to play with, less equals better, but each setup is unique, some clients like to give users the room to customise, others restrict.

Another solution, could be Xendesktop used with Xenclient, but the backend side is more complicated, needs more storage/servers, but can deliver an offline Windows 7 OS to clients, with Provisioning services, rollups are seamless and easy.

steinooo · 4 Nov 2013 at 08:03

1) thanks I'll look for what other settings I can disable to save bandwidth but the connection isn't just small bandwidth its unreliable. 2 I urgently need to check settings with!

Regarding the offline plugin for apps streaming ...how do you find this in practise? Do ppl use it and like it? It is useless for applications which need to contact a database in the data centre of course but I can see uses for it if it works with email clients like lotus for example.......

Xenclient is something I tried to play with but dropped as it seemed very complex. I.e. just to try it out I couldn't get a VM on the client.....is a synchronisation server necessary even for a small test?

Baz · 5 Nov 2013 at 20:11

Offline applications isn't that popular, not 100% convinced it is the best way to do it. For your issues I would start by testing with the built in 'tools' for dealing with a dodgy network, like ICA keep alive.

Xenclient doesn't need the Synchroniser, as you can use it as a multiboot tool, but if you have Xendesktop, I believe the Synchroniser is the only way to sync the gold image to XenClient, but could be wrong on that!

J1nxy · 6 Nov 2013 at 22:36

I deal with App-V a lot and also with XenApp/XenDesktop along with a number of other Workspace delivery tools. Citrix are now recommending App-V for app streaming into their products. Just to clarify XenApp has not been dropped from XenDesktop its been renamed as XenDesktop for Apps and carries working in the same way that it did before. What you have is a unified management platform for all types of Workspace delivery rather than the mishmash of tools that have been developed separately.

App-V and XenApp/XenDesktop work extremely well together but you need to decide what and how you want to deliver your apps as App-V could solve your issues, but it does come down to where you want processing to be carried out etc.

You also need to understand if you are licensed for using App-V on the desktops.

steinooo · 8 Nov 2013 at 18:20

J1nxy said:
you need to decide what and how you want to deliver your apps as App-V could solve your issues, but it does come down to where you want processing to be carried out etc.

Cheers for the input jinxy.

The quoted bit is really the part I can't decide on as I've never spoken to anyone who uses it, so can't fathom what it's capable of.

Citrix users want to stop using published desktops so I want to trial them using local fat clients with nice cheap processing power at their fingertips, and deliver apps to them which can harness this local processing power.

I can't understand if "offline streamed apps" via App-V/XenApp will

1) mask a network blip?
2) perhaps even allow email client users to undock and continue to write emails, read through existing ones?
3) allow use of local processing power for a native feel?

thanks in advance for sharing, I am clueless on this offline streaming but it sounds good so I am hungry for advice and use-cases

J1nxy · 9 Nov 2013 at 15:21

Ok, so now at a keyboard and have time to reply...

App-V is an application delivery system. It is not like Citrix XenApp/Desktop where a remote server is used to run the applications and then deliver the screen to remote device. Whilst it works very well with these platforms it is an enhancement to them not a replacement for them as they have specific use cases where they work very well.

App-V sequenced applications are run locally on a device, after being streamed or delivered in some fashion. They can be cached locally allowing for offline utilisation and updated/deployed from distribution points on the network. depending on how you wish to deploy the infrastructure you can use file shares and deliver from SMB, the native App-V services and stream them or integrate into SCCM2008/2012.

One thing to note not all applications can be sequenced, the method of packing apps for utilisation in App-V, things with drivers for example don't work, but there are ways of working round these problems. There are also certain apps that are either not a good idea to sequence, typically ones that are common and have integration like Office, or that are disallow App-V through the EULA terms.

Using App-V is a very good way of deploying Apps and in the scenario your talking about then I think it could be a good fit. But you do need to take into account the desktop as a whole, understand how the users want to work, how you will control the OS, where distribution points would need to be etc...