Anything better than CMSS3D?

[fs123]

I currently have an old Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium and use CMSS3D for gaming setup as 7.1 speaker config and headphones in the Creative console . Recently I tested out Dolby Access and DTSX:Unbound which are supposed to provide good spatial 3D audio. Unfortunately I still found CMSS3D provided the best positional sound even though I'm not sure if it still creates true spatial 3D like it did in the days of EAX.

Anyone know if there is anything better than CMSS3D available or something that can give similar results? Dolby and DTS seem to be too muddy/muffled to me.

 

[fs123]

There was actually a company tailoring surround solutions to certain headphones awhile back, I'm struggling to remember the name and finding the details via googles several pages of dodgy advertisements is a pain.

I believe that @EsaT mentioned them once in relation to a DT990 profile they had on offer, but I've no idea if he's still around.

I know that Audeze use Dolby Atmos for their lauded Maxwell series, but the cans are planar magnetic and might be tailored specifically to the software, whereas other headphones wont be.

What exactly are you using headphone wise? For good software surround you generally want an open back headphone with good soundstage, some solutions are going to be muddy either way but a Corsair/Razer/Turtle Beach or whatever else dodgy headset is generally not going to respond well to any sort of virtual surround for the price.

I use Sennheiser PC360 open backed headphones. They are pretty good and I've had them for over 8 years now.

 

[fs123]

I've read this many times, that people who experienced CMSS-3D prefer it to more modern solutions and it might be you're in that camp. Although a lot of the debate seems to centre on assumptions; i.e. CMSS-3D was hardware accelerated vs. SBX being bound to CPU. I'm not sure how accurate those are. In theory Creative's SBX should be the closest thing to CMSS-3D. However I've also read it before that a lot of people prefer Virtual Surround Sound (VSS) to 3D audio, particularly for competitive, online, PVP fps games like Call of Duty/Warzone. I've seen people hang on to Astro Mixamps for that reason. And of course there is the whole thing around everyone's hearing being different so 3D solutions might not work for you.

There is a piece of software called HeSuVi (SourceForge download link) which can emulate various binaural software solutions on PC, such as SBX, Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, Dolby Atmos for Heaphones etc. Which I think works in tandem with Equalizer APO (there is a wiki here). It's been years and years since I played with this but it's free software and can give you a lot of control on how things sound. That might be one way to help work out what you prefer.

I might be wrong at the moment, but following lots of A-B testing recently where I was testing the HD58X vs 650, or various DAC/AMPs on the PS5 Pro and my new ifi stack, it really cemented my thoughts on how much impact the actual game audio engine has on what you hear. Some games have great audio, but equally others do not. It feels like in this world of multi-platform gaming, in terms of binaural/HRTF video games seem to do one of the following:

1. Use their own solution (Overwatch etc.)
2. A small number use 3D audio software; so Windows Sonic/Dolby Atmos for Headphones/DTS:Headphone X) or Sony's 3D PlayStation 5 audio. Although some recent Sony PC ports like TLOU Part One seem to work with Dolby Atmos for Headphones on PC, but then it's less clear on what games like Horizon Zero Dawn/Forbidden West do). You also get games like Borderlands 3 that work on Microsoft's 3D solution but not Sony's. So I don't know how easy it is for developers to support both. And it's not 100% clear what solutions like Dolby Atmos for Heaphones do when enabled, but the games don't support 3D audio.
3. Don't offer anything (small indies games, RTS games etc).

One of the benefits of using VSS is that most games over the last 15+ years have 5.1/7.1 Dolby Digital soundtrack and a Mixamp, GSX 1000 or Creative SBX G7/GC7 or G8 etc. can always decode this into VSS. For a while I've been trying to use plain stereo on PC and console gaming although I'm still a sucker for the GC7 with VSS audio on certain games where 3D audio isn't offered. I'd like to 'train this out' if at all possible. And recently I've started to realise that some of this stuff like soundstage, imaging etc. in headphones might not be as important as claimed. That actually good headphones and high quality audio go a long, long way.

I have Hesuvi installed and have tested the various solutions but for some reason still find CMSS3D to give the best positional sound, especially when sound is coming from the rear. In Horizon Forbidden West I have compared my soundcard's CMSS3D vs Hesuvi's version and it is almost identical which shows that Hesuvi is doing a very good job of simulating everything. DTS is supported in Rise of the Tombraider and even in that game I still find CMSS3D to be slightly better.
Next thing I want to try is Super X-fi but I will have to buy the usb DAC module for that.