Anything I can do...is it classed as taking money without permission?

[GinG]

A couple of weeks back my gf bought a dress from debenhams online. After 2 weeks there was no sign of an email saying it had been dispatched or anything, so she rang them up and they said because of a move to a new warehouse orders were being held back...ok no problem, phone a few days later to be told the dress is acctually out of stock!

Girlfriend then gets told sorry and the payment will be cancelled and no money will be taken out of the account.

How my finances work is that any spare cash I have goes into savings, so pretty much have no money in this 1 account, as we were told the payment was to be cancelled I transfered the money that was in there into my savings.

Look yesterday at my bank, they have taken the money out! As they have done this 2 direct debits that should have been paid hasn't.

Where do I stand?

Debenhams told me payment was cancelled > transfer money into savings > they still take payment > no money in for 2 direct debits > I will get a black mark & 2 charges.

Could this be classed as taking money without permission?

Thanks

 

[Wicksta]

How my finances work is that any spare cash I have goes into savings, so pretty much have no money in this 1 account, as we were told the payment was to be cancelled I transfered the money that was in there into my savings.

Not a great idea really, you should always leave some kind of buffer in a current account or get a small overdraft facility.

 

[Wiggins]

You should get a statement printed out, call them and demand they refund the money plus charges.

Ask them for a fax number and fax the statement over with charges showing. They are legally obliged to refund the costs back.

Remember to black out all other data on the statement first though.

 

[GinG]

Not a great idea really, you should always leave some kind of buffer in a current account or get a small overdraft facility.

Why though? I know exactly what goes out to the penny, I was told the payment wouldnt be made so transfered into savings.

 

[AtreuS]

Dodgy ground this one. If you tell the bank it was a fraudulant tranaction they will investigate and find out that you did in fact authorise the original transaction. As far as the bank in concerned it isnt a fraud, its a case of miscommunication between you and the store.

Yes they shouldnt have taken the money, but it IS authorised, as far as the bank in concerned.

Ive had similar happen in the past and gotten nowhere because i did authorise the original payment. The fact that it was supposed to be cancelled does not not negate the original authorisation by the bank. That authorisation is valid for a set period and the money can be taken within that period.

So going after the bank for "giving away your money" is a non starter. You can appeal the charges after explaining the situation but dont expect miracles.

Your only place of recourse is the shop, but im sure you will find a section in their T&C's that state they are in no way liable for third party charges over matters like this. You accepted these T&C's when you authorised the payment originally. Thier only legal obligation is to refund you within a reasonable period ( usually 14 days ) if a charge was taken by mistake (probably... i dont know for a fact ).

 

[Tripnologist]

Yes they shouldnt have taken the money, but it IS authorised, as far as the bank in concerned.

Ding! Thus the reason for a small buffer or overdraft.
You could have called Debenhams, made a fuss, got your money back and that would be the end of it. Now you're going to have to spend time and effort trying to get the charges back too.

 

[Raumarik]

Call them up and ask what's going on, point out that you've been charged by the bank for this as they wrongly took payment - Personally I'd be looking for a goodwill gesture on their part to cover the charges.

 

[RDM]

Why though? I know exactly what goes out to the penny, I was told the payment wouldnt be made so transfered into savings.

In case something unforseen happens? Such as a company taking money when they shouldn't for example?

 

[LucyTurnip]

not surprising, most people in retail don't know how to do their jobs, leaving an account completely empty isn't the best idea if you are using it regularly to pay for things, **** ups like this aren't uncommon and you're left to sort it out.

 

[Mr-White]

Tell your bank the transaction was fraudulent as you had authorised the original transaction but this was subsequently cancelled and the funds removed. As this transaction will be reversed it is debenhams who are in fact at fault and if anyone should be charged for the transaction it is them.

MW

 

[AtreuS]

Tell your bank the transaction was fraudulent as you had authorised the original transaction but this was subsequently cancelled and the funds removed. As this transaction will be reversed it is debenhams who are in fact at fault and if anyone should be charged for the transaction it is them.

MW

I got told this was not the banks problem when i took my dispute further. The original authorisation is valid for a set period regardless of wether you subsequently ask the retailer to take it back.

Its not fraud because the authorisation was valid and made by you... end of story. It may well feel like fraud, and in a moral sense it is, but in a legal and banking sense it most certainly is not. If some company comes along 6 months down the line and takes money then its fraud because there is no accompanying authorisation ( the original one where they got your details is now expired ).

You can try but this was the advice i got from a family friend solicitor and the citizens advice.

 

[Mr-White]

I got told this was not the banks problem when i took my dispute further. The original authorisation is valid for a set period regardless of wether you subsequently ask the retailer to take it back.

Its not fraud because the authorisation was valid and made by you... end of story. It may well feel like fraud, and in a moral sense it is, but in a legal and banking sense it most certainly is not. If some company comes along 6 months down the line and takes money then its fraud because there is no accompanying authorisation ( the original one where they got your details is now expired ).

You can try but this was the advice i got from a family friend solicitor and the citizens advice.

man that sucks How longs the transaction valid for despite cancellation ?

MW

 

[AtreuS]

man that sucks How longs the transaction valid for despite cancellation ?

MW

Im actually trting to find this out now on the internet but cant find much. My dispute was a good 6 or 7 years ago now so things may have changed, I think it was 30 days, or 28 etc back then but dont quote me on it.

 

[Mr-White]

Im actually trting to find this out now on the internet but cant find much. My dispute was a good 6 or 7 years ago now so things may have changed, I think it was 30 days, or 28 etc back then but dont quote me on it.

Looks like the OP wont be far off that 30 days.

I would have said the laws might have changed in 6-7 years with distance selling etc

MW

 

[Eriedor]

Why though? I know exactly what goes out to the penny, I was told the payment wouldnt be made so transfered into savings.

For situations exactly like this...? The way you manage your finances is a bit silly so you were going to get burned in the end.


All this hassle so you can earn an extra...1% or so of interest on a small amount of money?

 

[Worthy]

Some people are like that though. I bet his wallet is full of Morrisons receipts and he splits the bog paper sheets to make it last twice as long.

 

[GinG]

Some people are like that though. I bet his wallet is full of Morrisons receipts and he splits the bog paper sheets to make it last twice as long.

50 % true lol.

Thanks for the feedback, I guess 1st call is to speak to the bank again, then see what I can get out of debenhams...if anything!!!

Cheers

 

[Wicksta]

Why though? I know exactly what goes out to the penny

There are always situations where you might not, see your original post.

I've learnt that it's less hassle to leave a bit more in my current account than have to go through the agro you are now, it might cost you 50p in interest though.

 

[DIABLO]

When orange borked up and charged me twice and i went over drawn i just rang them up tehy gave me a fax number to send proof of the withdrawal and charges and i recieved a cheque not long after.

 

[Energize]

Take them to court for the costs incurred.