APS-C or FF

EGuitarStar · 26 Feb 2019 at 21:01

Looking for a APS-C or FF camera to supplement my M43 gear, purely for use to capture friends/family events where light is low.

I recently went to two events where light was low. Despite using a f1.7 lens on my M43 camera I had to use ISO 6400 and above which resulted in fairly noisy images.

Now, I am not looking to replace my M43 gear, it is, in my opinion the best system available given the weight and size of bodies and lenses for all shooting scenarios other than low light with moving subjects.

I'm just looking for a APS-C or FF body with a prime or two for group and portraits.

I've had a look at the Sony A7II (Mark 2) at the moment as the most likely possible candidate but willing to hear from others about other FF or APS-C cameras/systems.

Note: I didn't post this on DPReview because of the sheer amount of hatred I'd get for being a M4/3 user looking at another system.

Minstadave · 26 Feb 2019 at 21:05

APS-C doesn't offer a worthwhile step up over m43.

FF is going to be your best bet. The A7iii is a big step up over the A7ii, I'd consider that move.

Your other option is to buy a decent flash. You'd be surprised what you can achieve.

marcus_667 · 26 Feb 2019 at 21:05

Maybe a sony or a cheap enough canon deal Full Frame

EGuitarStar · 26 Feb 2019 at 21:32

Thought FF would have been the suggestion. Being that I do not require any video features is the A7iii that much of a better camera than the A7ii?

Edit: Just found https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/preview/sony-a7ii-vs-a7iii/

Minstadave · 26 Feb 2019 at 21:53

EGuitarStar said:
Thought FF would have been the suggestion. Being that I do not require any video features is the A7iii that much of a better camera than the A7ii?

Edit: Just found https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/preview/sony-a7ii-vs-a7iii/

The main benefit is the AF is much stronger on the A7iii. Plus the battery is less disappointing.

https://www.digitalrev.com/article/sony-a7ii-v-sony-a7iii-should-you-upgrade
https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/8en6mw/how_are_you_who_upgraded_to_a7iii_from_the_a7ii/

I'm a m43 user and it's the the A7iii is the only camera that's really tempting.

i know nothing · 27 Feb 2019 at 02:19

I'd look at spending money on a flash (or even a simple OCF setup) as Minstadave suggested.

EGuitarStar · 27 Feb 2019 at 10:06

I've always steered away from flashes as I don't know how to use them and didn't want to learn.

I'm looking at the Godox TT350o (for Oly and Pana) and think I'll make a start here.

One question though, in terms of white balance do I use the flash WB setting, set WB to auto or do I balance a custom one for the environment?

i know nothing · 27 Feb 2019 at 10:35

EGuitarStar said:
I've always steered away from flashes as I don't know how to use them and didn't want to learn.

I'm looking at the Godox TT350o (for Oly and Pana) and think I'll make a start here.

One question though, in terms of white balance do I use the flash WB setting, set WB to auto or do I balance a custom one for the environment?

I shoot RAW all the time, so it doesn't really matter as I can alter the WB temp. to suit in post, therefore I tend to leave my WB set to Auto. I do use an Expodisc on occasion to set a custom WB, especially when there are multiple light sources, but that would be when I'm using OCF or in the studio and the WB actually matters.

ethan · 27 Feb 2019 at 18:28

I would imagine it's down to a price performance ratio and your budget. For this reason I supplimented a Fuji XT3 with a Nikon D750.

Snapshot · 28 Feb 2019 at 15:44

EGuitarStar said:
I've always steered away from flashes as I don't know how to use them and didn't want to learn.

I'm looking at the Godox TT350o (for Oly and Pana) and think I'll make a start here.

One question though, in terms of white balance do I use the flash WB setting, set WB to auto or do I balance a custom one for the environment?

I use the flash WB setting except on my Fuji X30 which doesn't have one! The TT350* is very good and a great place to start but you may soon find you need the increased power of the TT685. The good news is that both will act as controller for the one that's off-camera.

EGuitarStar · 28 Feb 2019 at 19:25

Snapshot said:
The TT350* is very good and a great place to start but you may soon find you need the increased power of the TT685. The good news is that both will act as controller for the one that's off-camera.

Cheers for that, good to know.

Just testing it out and I think this will suffice in terms of what I need and is far less expensive than picking up a new FF camera system.

The only downside it that the tt350 looks quite large on my GX80, then again I was looking to sell the GX80 for the GX9 or G9. I think this confirms that.

Tysonator · 7 Mar 2019 at 18:42

IMO the Sony A7iii is very good in low light and better than canon 5Div
It is small enough, though some lens can be a bit of a beast !

mid_gen · 8 Mar 2019 at 07:18

EGuitarStar said:
Cheers for that, good to know.

Just testing it out and I think this will suffice in terms of what I need and is far less expensive than picking up a new FF camera system.

The only downside it that the tt350 looks quite large on my GX80, then again I was looking to sell the GX80 for the GX9 or G9. I think this confirms that.

Try using the flash with a simple spiral cable, camera in one hand, flash in the other. Makes it easy to direct the flash and bounce it around, and will be easier to handle on a small m4/3 than balancing a huge flash on top of it.

D.P. · 8 Mar 2019 at 10:54

Be aware of DoF. Moving to FF will give you greater light gather capabilities at the same aperture but with a reduction in DoF which you may not want. E.g., if you are shooting a fast prime on M43 and have sufficient DoF for your subject, shooting a fast prime on FF will gain you 2 stops but you might not have the DoF, if you maintain DoF by reducing aperture on the FF then you wont have gained anything.

And of course if you move to FF but end up with slower zooms than fast prime on M43 then you wont gain any low light ability.

Lastly, when it gets dark (e.g. indoors evening, church wedding), the larger sensor of FF only offers so much benefits. You quickly end up raising ISO through the roof but still struggle to freeze motion. So at the end of the day you will need a flash/lighting in any case, FF or M43.

I do think a FF camera is a nice addition to M43, I use both. But you need to take care and not mistakenly believe you get something for nothing.

EGuitarStar · 8 Mar 2019 at 15:39

mid_gen said:
Try using the flash with a simple spiral cable, camera in one hand, flash in the other. Makes it easy to direct the flash and bounce it around, and will be easier to handle on a small m4/3 than balancing a huge flash on top of it.

Perfect, great tip.

D.P. said:
Be aware of DoF. Moving to FF will give you greater light gather capabilities at the same aperture but with a reduction in DoF which you may not want. E.g., if you are shooting a fast prime on M43 and have sufficient DoF for your subject, shooting a fast prime on FF will gain you 2 stops but you might not have the DoF, if you maintain DoF by reducing aperture on the FF then you wont have gained anything.

And of course if you move to FF but end up with slower zooms than fast prime on M43 then you wont gain any low light ability.

Lastly, when it gets dark (e.g. indoors evening, church wedding), the larger sensor of FF only offers so much benefits. You quickly end up raising ISO through the roof but still struggle to freeze motion. So at the end of the day you will need a flash/lighting in any case, FF or M43.

I do think a FF camera is a nice addition to M43, I use both. But you need to take care and not mistakenly believe you get something for nothing.

You folks are really working hard for me to not spend my money and get a FF camera...... I appreciate it.

iamtheoneneo · 9 Mar 2019 at 16:57

FF all the way. It opens you up to do so much more with photography in my opinion