Arcam rPAC DAC unsuitable for gaming?

ironmysox

ironmysox

ironmysox

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Firstly thank you for looking at my post!!

I currently game using the on board on my ASUS Z370 Tuf Pro Gaming which is ok, it works and sounds alright. I'm connected via optical to a Denon Stereo amp which is connected to a Cambridge Audio Sub and 2 Cambridge Audio minx speakers. My pc is in a small room and its great. Now, I also have an Arcam rPAC DAC which I have never used before (I've had it 2 years and only just opened it!) and I have connected it Via USB on the recommendation from a audiophile friend that I will get better acoustics even with my limited set up.

The DAC is currently connected and I have been testing it since the weekend and he is right when it comes to music, its tighter, better sound stage, smoother vocals and the bass is more controlled. Wonderful!!!

BUT . .

Gaming seems to be missing sounds??? Is this possible?? Take the new Modern Warfare for example, the sound is great in that game and using the on board its hectic and very busy, explosions and gunfire etc. Now using the DAC it just seems to be missing something? Gunfire in the distance for example. The DAC drivers are installed and updated to the latest. I presumed that the PC would process the sound and transfer it through to the DAC as digital and the DAC would just cope with it. I have asked my "Audiophile" friend but he has no idea when it comes to gaming but does agree it is missing "something".

Sorry for a long winded post.

Many thanks

Chris
 
You aren't actually using the motherboard's onboard audio. That only applies to the analogue outputs; the 3.5mm sockets.

By using any kind of digital connection, whatever you connect on the other end is doing the sound processing. In your case, the Denon amp, or the rPAC.

It could be that the rPAC is a better DAC and has better sound processing than what the Denon amp has. Either that, or there is some difference between using optical and USB. They are both digital, so data is being sent which is before any processing into a sound signal is done.

I'm not really sure why the rPAC would be inferior when it comes to gaming sounds. Both are just stereo. If there are no DSP (digital signal processing) effects being applied, there should be very little noticeable difference between the two I would have thought.

My DAC has optical and USB input. I may try playing something later on and seeing whether I can hear any difference between the two connections. At least that would give some indication as to whether the audio being send to both connection types is treated any differently by the game being played, etc.
 
Thanks for the reply and your excellent explanation. Since posting this I have been given a Soundblaster AE5 to try. Like the on board, there is more audio content when gaming, especially with Modern Warfare. I have even tried another USB cable. The quality of sound is brilliant from the DAC, the gunfire is more weighty, the explosions do not rumble so much and are more controlled but quickly switching from one device to the other there is notifiable differences in the sound. I am just about to try a Cyrus Gaming Sound Key which also connects via USB so I will post my results.
 
After testing the Cyrus Soundkey on my system I can honestly say I am baffled. Once again the sound is great as I thought it would be BUT gaming audio presents itself slightly empty. Switching from the AE5 to either DAC I instantly lose background noise such as the buzzing of a drone (MW) flyovers from enemy call streaks. I had to invite a friend round to listen as I started to think "have I gone mad? are you being just too fussy?" but no, he agreed the audio from the Soundcard via toslink with no effects added is busier than using either DAC. Its like back in the day when you could choose the amount of channels of audio.

I don't know, maybe I will just buy a Soundcard and stop worrying. :-(
 
There is another element too, when considering audio detail; gaming with headphones.

That opens up something which you just can't get using stereo speakers in particular. While headphones are still stereo, a sound card such as the AE5, can use algorithms, which send audio cues, giving the listener the impression sound is coming from more than just left and right. If it's done right, you can locate how far left, right or behind etc, a sound is coming from without having to see where it is coming from in game.

Of course you can get that using 5.1 speakers, but then you have to place those speakers correctly and they only have five fixed location points where the sound is coming from. In other words, a sound coming from the rear to the front on either side; the sound is heard at the rear speaker, then the front. There is nothing in between. With headphones, if done right, you can track the movement of things more accurately than just rear left or right, front left or right, etc.

For sound cards, AE5 is as good as it gets for gaming with headphones, or the external equivalent; G6.

Interesting though that you found the same using a different USB DAC.

Sound cards that have optical output can send DSP effects to an external DAC, and then to whatever amp and speakers/headphones. For example; if someone had a good separate DAC with optical input and headphone amp, they could buy a cheap Audigy FX and make use of SBX Prostudio, which is found on Creative sound cards for creating what I've explained above.

The reason why I mention that, is because I wonder if some details are being transferred in the same idea via optical to the Denon amp, which you then hear. Maybe when using those USB DACs, you don't hear that detail, because they aren't capable, on a driver level at least. Essentially, they are basic stereo DACs.

Whether or not that is happening, I don't know. Can't think of anything else that would explain why you are hearing less detail with a USB DAC compared to a stereo amp connected via optical to the motherboard.
 
Marsman said:
There is another element too, when considering audio detail; gaming with headphones.

That opens up something which you just can't get using stereo speakers in particular. While headphones are still stereo, a sound card such as the AE5, can use algorithms, which send audio cues, giving the listener the impression sound is coming from more than just left and right. If it's done right, you can locate how far left, right or behind etc, a sound is coming from without having to see where it is coming from in game.

Of course you can get that using 5.1 speakers, but then you have to place those speakers correctly and they only have five fixed location points where the sound is coming from. In other words, a sound coming from the rear to the front on either side; the sound is heard at the rear speaker, then the front. There is nothing in between. With headphones, if done right, you can track the movement of things more accurately than just rear left or right, front left or right, etc.

For sound cards, AE5 is as good as it gets for gaming with headphones, or the external equivalent; G6.

Interesting though that you found the same using a different USB DAC.

Sound cards that have optical output can send DSP effects to an external DAC, and then to whatever amp and speakers/headphones. For example; if someone had a good separate DAC with optical input and headphone amp, they could buy a cheap Audigy FX and make use of SBX Prostudio, which is found on Creative sound cards for creating what I've explained above.

The reason why I mention that, is because I wonder if some details are being transferred in the same idea via optical to the Denon amp, which you then hear. Maybe when using those USB DACs, you don't hear that detail, because they aren't capable, on a driver level at least. Essentially, they are basic stereo DACs.

Whether or not that is happening, I don't know. Can't think of anything else that would explain why you are hearing less detail with a USB DAC compared to a stereo amp connected via optical to the motherboard.
Click to expand...

This makes perfect sense. The AE5 is capable of processing all the available fx then transferring them via optical to the Denon. Like you said, the Dacs are just that, stereo DACs. The AE5 I’m using belongs to a friend who said I can have it for £35 so I’m sticking with that and I am going to leave the Arcam connected for music. That way I should get the best of both worlds with the current set up. You have been incredibly helpful so thank you for taking the time to reply.
 
One possible cause for difference would be that as dumb single purpose device Arcam relies on game doing downmix to stereo...
Or Wintoys10, which ain't any better when only thing Microsoft has done to PC game sounds is proving hostility to advance of them.

Again SBX AE-5 uses its own processing to do downmixing from 7.1 of the game, if settings are right.

ironmysox said:
The AE5 I’m using belongs to a friend who said I can have it for £35
Click to expand...
You better buy him decent birthday present when you have friend like that.
 
hornetstinger said:
Maybe in the past digital out didn't pass eax processed audio, so eax surround sound games where just stereo.
Click to expand...
While newer SBX AE-5 lacks it, SB Z serie has DD/DTS encoders capable to outputting 5.1 sound through optical.
(stereo mix doesn't need any special encoding working as PCM)
Don't remember if X-Fi cards included DD encoder.
 
If the game has different audio output options you could try choosing stereo. Also Arcam have their own driver installer for that DAC. I have one myself, but don't use the headphone out. May help, but i'd use the Denon's decoder like as mentioned. Non FPS games, do some comparisons again and see how you get on. That DAC is very good value for money, specially being free :P
 
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