Are earnings too low / living costs getting too high??

[Buffman]

Is it me or do earnings seem to be getting too low/living costs getting higher?

Particularly with house prices continually rising. Even with a couple each earning the average wage (what like £28k?) doesn't seem to go particularly far if you want nice things or a decent size house (Midlands /North).
Let's not even get started on the London housing bubble.

I struggle at the thought of having kids (or even a dog) in future purely because of the expense/required reduction in working hours.

I recall reading that were the first generation worse off than their parents which rhymes true..
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....00-pounds-less-in-their-20s-than-predecessors

Does anyone see it getting better?

 

[Buffman]

Next year either gonna move up north or to London.

What industry out of interest?

Cost more than me for that when I lived in Cambridge foxeye .

Luckily I moved to West Midlands which is slightly more affordable...
However here's a hit for you... £140a month council tax!! (plus around 10 to 20 water).. Bills are mad.

And no I'm not one of these people with sky subscriptions /brand new phone/car etc.. Im quite the opposite. Similarly I don't think young people buying these things is an issue, it doesn't change a knackered housing market.

 

[Buffman]

This thread seems to have become a bit too focused on what you can do on minimum wage or whatever - but I think the OP was talking more about the affordability of a lifestyle commensurate with a given wage where housing costs are fast becoming a big, though not the only, factor in redefining what that means. Sure if you are earning below average wage you might have to limit your expectations somewhat but its not unreasonable to expect that someone earning an average wage could afford an average house, an average car, etc. etc. without having to make too big a sacrifice in any one area - or alternatively a bigger sacrifice in some areas if they wanted a nicer house, etc. but increasingly if you were say earning an average wage you are looking at property affordability that is far lower down the ladder or making considerable sacrifices in some areas of your lifestyle to afford a fairly average house.

Yea you've articulated it better than me!

Im basically the situation of the latter part of your post, I'd probably be able to afford a much nicer house if I was born 15 years ago (with similar career).
I don't need to justify my outgoings to GD but they are low. The thought of paying £100 a month on sky is completely foreign to me!

Its even worse on the minimum/low wage spectrum, but I suspect the majority of ocuk aren't in this market, thus not familiar. People 20+ years ago could afford say a 3 bed house on minimum wage incomes... Now not so much.

 

[Buffman]

I'm giving way too much help here. There is literally anything you or she could do.

You're not really giving anything away... You're grossly over simplifying it (eg not considering costs and how practical these ventures are to scale up)

There was a guy on this forum I believe who was a window cleaner... The kit is fairly expensive (extension poles to do high windows at ground level) and I imagine you would need pretty damn strong shoulders to do it all day!

 

[Buffman]

Isn't that less that minimum wage at full time?

I appreciate the point but would apply more if you now earn the previous plus inflation (eg 18k off the top of my head). Edit: ahh the above has worked it out

 

[Buffman]

Why do people think they need to jump straight into a 400k property.

What happened to working your way up.

But I want it now! :grumpy face:

I think the idea of working up now doesn't apply to lots of people as house price increases will be quicker than wage increases. (and there is a limit to what difference saving makes).

Also a 400k house now could have been a 100k hovel 10years ago in some areas..

 

[Buffman]

I have shown you. you can buy a flat in Scotland for £10K a 2 bedroom for £15K, yes they aren't buckingham palace or in nice areas but it shows you, that you can buy a flat on less than 1 years wage.

Im from Glasgow also, i can tell you those places are awful areas and the price indicates that.

I appreciate moving to get better earnings (I did it, both to Cambridge and now Warwickshire). However, there's no point in significantly lowering your quality of life and moving away from all your family/friends at the same time. It's also situation dependant, eg not easy to do with kids.

Also, you keep talking about random careers eg make up which pays £300 a day, but don't consider the amount of research and past experience etc required behind a day rate. Eg I could say "become a Thai boxer/gas engineer/professional dancer for £300 a day". It's a bit of a naive statement/outlook.

 

[Buffman]

Don't confuse liking a bargain with being tight.

I agree, I tend to do the same! (buy nice stuff cheap/EOL)
offtopic, is the pizza maker good? I bought a house to renovate with a broken oven, I've used a halogen oven for cooking pizza but its not as good/quick as a normal oven. Thats like the only thing I tend to use an oven for

Sharlaw,
It will just be the same process and based on your income/ outgoings (I imagine child support is the only extra outgoing). AFAIK the max mortgage you can get is around 4.5 times your income as a rule of thumb.

 

[Buffman]

What model & how much? Sounds good.

Is it better than a standard oven for pizza?

 

[Buffman]

...

I think the below summarises the main points, but I understand where you're coming from. A couple both earning the average wage with no kids i assume is a fair bit higher than the average household income (I haven't really checked)?

...

Agreed, well summarised.

 

[Buffman]

-A gaming PC costing well in excess of a grand
-A current games console
-Fibre broadband
-Home extension costing nearly £30k
-Holidays

Whats wrong with all them? Only "excessive" one might be having multiple ways to game..

Having to extend a home is probably due to the market being so damn high..

Also fibre broadband can be had for circa £20/month? Not expensive. There's no point crippling yourself with small savings at the cost of your wellbeing if you have to save up for large figures. (eg a couple hundred quid doesn't make a difference when you're saving for a 20k+ house deposit).

Im not sure what the holidays consist of, but generally appreciated as a basic requirement to have relaxing time.

Hell I made the thread and I'm sure users could pick apart my spending habits from their high horse! . I made it more for a general point of discussion than a moan about my personal position however.. (although if I had a working oven that would be nice :l

 

[Buffman]

Yeah at that kind of child care bill it seems not worthwhile having both of the parents working full time.I guess that 1300/month roughly equates to 22k gross, not including travel costs for work etc.

 

[Buffman]

It simply means they can't work with money. If you can't make it work on 56k between they two of you, you simply cannot work with money and probably should strongly consider investing in a basic financial literacy education.

I'd say outside of London the above is a good wage between 2 people.... With kids I'd want more tho! (or like 45k with one person working..)

How much does everyone else think is a "good/comfortable" amount?
And what about with kids?

 

[Buffman]

Sure, we don't have children but then we never would in our situation because it doesn't make sense to until we've got our own house. I think that's the bigger problem - people don't plan for things any more.

Agreed, requires planning but also a fairly hefty wage (if you want a fairly decent quality of life). Which is unattainable for some sadly.

An impressive amount of saving! Where are you hoping to buy? I never really counted how much we were saving before I bought our place, but was a good % of our salaries!
We both drive poverty cars however

Me and my partner both earn good wages in London with a good amount in savings. Despite this we have pretty much given up on the idea of buying a property. For every £500 we save the property prices go up £1000.


It's impossible and it's incredibly frustrating! I just hope this unsustainable growth crashes so we have a hope to own and not pay someone else's mortgage.

Have you considered moving out of London? (or are your jobs/industries key to London).

I'd hate the thought of spending 300+k for a 1 bed flat in zone 3 (someone told me that's how much it is :X)

 

[Buffman]

indeed, glad you agree

ones I've seen tend to be not far off grad pay pro-rata

Internships are more like 12 to 16k as far as I know..
So yes they're a fair way off a livable salary. (ok for 16year olds living with mum and dad but that's about it)

 

[Buffman]

They do, but that's all historic data from before we decided it was a good idea for 50% of school leavers to go to university.

And they tend not to consider the cost of the fees (just salary is X% higher), which will be a bigger deal these days (previously was still evident they earn more as fees were so much lower).

As said before posting regarding going to uni or not is worth it is based totally on personal experiences and is anecdotal. For what it's worth I know people who've gone and got a significant step ahead in terms of salary jump, and those who haven't. I think most will agree it will be tougher to go to uni and get a salary/careerr jump if:

• You go to a poorly rated uni
• you get a poor degree (sub 2:1)
• you don't apply yourself well post degree (apply for lots of jobs etc..)
• you study a softer skill (eg non STEM)
• You're unwilling to travel for the right role /pay..

As discussed on many threads though, sometimes university isn't just for "I want to get a job that pays £x0,000+".

 

[Buffman]

A decent internship should be more like 24k

Where? Is this the case in many industries? (outside London)

Moved out with my pay at 15k to a two bed house in London.. it's doable.

When? ie was this recent? otherwise fair play..

 

[Buffman]

Yeah but if you saved 100-150 month then but rent has gone up 200 a month now it wouldn't be so easy today for someone on 15k...
As for uni, totally agree. My sons friends are still at uni, with debts piling up, while he's been at work for over a year, over 10k in the bank, and just about to move up to a management role.
He is well established in a working environment, while they haven't even started their working lives yet, and are going to be graduating into a post brexit world.

Still cheaper than I thought to be fair!

Again, pretty anecdotal. I started uni in 2009 just post recession and I'm sure might have been similar. Also you don't get "real world" experience but with a degree you can start the career ladder (generally) on a much higher rung (well, salary) pending vocation, also opens up other opportunities/breaks a glass ceiling in certain fields.