Are PSU's a rip off ?

Soldato
Joined
27 Dec 2003
Posts
5,011
Location
UK PLC
I can understand why certain pieces of hardware cost a lot of money, the R&D costs for the 88** must have been very high and im sure goes some way in justifying the high price.
The C2D CPU's are a massive leap forward from the Pentium series and therefore justify the cost (less than £50 for a C2D).
However, how much has the PSU been developed in the past 3 years to justify a £200 price tag.
Intelligent discussion please.
 
Well, I can think of a few things that affect the price,

  • Limited production leading to less economy of scale
  • More expensive parts required for higher reliability
  • More expensive parts required for the throughput of the wattage
  • More money spent getting into the very tight market

Other than that, I think they are a tad overpriced - after all, there are very few alternatives.
 
the only point in the 1kw psu's is for people with like 20 hard drives aswell as massively overclocked quad core + sli etc, for even that minus the 20 hard drives a 600w or so is plenty for anything.
 
pegasus1 said:
As mentioned
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-000-PP&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=
At a tad under £300 and the 8 other PSU's at well over £150.
Like i said, i can sort of see why other components cost the money but not a PSU.
400gig HDD for £50
Dual layer DVD burner for £18
C2D for £50

For that system you could get a perfectly good PSU for under £70. :)

I guess you could say that about other things, say for instance the Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme Edition QX6800.

Unless ive missed your point entirely? :p (its late)
 
Benjarghmin said:
Most definitely. Such PSUs exist fo the market of people who are building a system and think "If 500 W is good, 1000 W must be better. My über rig will need monstrous power supply because it's so über." Something like that...
 
pegasus1 said:
I can understand why certain pieces of hardware cost a lot of money, the R&D costs for the 88** must have been very high and im sure goes some way in justifying the high price.
The C2D CPU's are a massive leap forward from the Pentium series and therefore justify the cost (less than £50 for a C2D).
However, how much has the PSU been developed in the past 3 years to justify a £200 price tag.
Intelligent discussion please.
Coverting household AC electricity into clean DC power 24/7 for multiple voltage rails within a small tolerance and efficiently is a pretty strenuous job and if you think about it its probably the only component (except for the mobo) in a system that if it went **** up could potentially destroy it all and kill you in the process so probably needs a lot more safety testing...

I dont think they should be expensive as they are but its only very recently PSUs have really evolved (i.e. PCIe and multiple rails) though I dont understand where you would really need more than say 600w. If you consider multiple rails, each rail has its own series of protection circuits and could be classed as a mini-PSU...

Ultimately economies of scale make high-end PSUs expensive, you wont find them in Dell PCs like you will with C2Ds and its a very much a niche product even within euthasist circles (how many do you know with a decent PC but a so-so PSU?)

stickroad said:
For that system you could get a perfectly good PSU for under £70. :)

I guess you could say that about other things, say for instance the Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme Edition QX6800.

Unless ive missed your point entirely? :p (its late)
Touche ;)

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Last edited:
I agree with what you said. I think PSUs are overpriced. I think its becasue of the market they aim at. People get caught up with: which graphics card, which CPU etc and then which PSU. I mean, we're only talking electricity here, and thats not exactly new tech is it. a lot of electrical items would have some kind of PSU in them which costs pennies (i know its not the quite the same). Ive always thought (waiting to get shot down with this one!) why would an 800w psu cost much more to make than a 400w psu? ok, maybe slightly more, but why? Maybe someone knows......
 
Last edited:
mame said:
I agree with what you said. I think PSUs are overpriced. I think its becasue of the market they aim at. People get caught up with: which graphics card, which CPU etc and then which PSU. I mean, we're only talking electricity here, and thats not exactly new tech is it. a lot of electrical items would have some kind of PSU in them which costs pennies (i know its not the quite the same). Ive always thought (waiting to get shot down with this one!) why would an 800w psu cost much more to make than a 400w psu? ok maybe slightly more maybe but why? Maybe someone knows......

Mainly down to the economies of scale. They'll be making a lot less 800W than 400W PSUs, and so the already more-expensive parts (due to throughput, tolerance and reliability) cost more because you're buying them in smaller batches.
 
mame said:
I agree with what you said. I think PSUs are overpriced. I think its becasue of the market they aim at. People get caught up with: which graphics card, which CPU etc and then which PSU. I mean, we're only talking electricity here, and thats not exactly new tech is it. a lot of electrical items would have some kind of PSU in them which costs pennies (i know its not the quite the same). Ive always thought (waiting to get shot down with this one!) why would an 800w psu cost much more to make than a 400w psu? ok maybe slightly more maybe but why? Maybe someone knows......
Because one single rail could not cope with the effort needed to convert 800w into individual voltages usable in a PC without a massive loss in efficiency and instability in the quality of the power it outputs...

Therefore you would have to put in multiple rails to deal with this which costs just as much money ...

I think the highest single rail PSU Ive seen is a PCP&C 600w - also considering thats the cream of the PSU world its like comparing a Xeon to a Celeron...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
<F0rb> said:
If you actually have such a powerful system that you NEED 1K PSU's, you wouldn't worry about £200

Exactly, thats why they charge the price. (not my OP remember)
 
plenty of single rail 800-1000W psu's are around, and they are better in general.

about 99% of "dual rail" or more psu's aren't actually dual rail, they simply split the initial voltages across different leads to meet a pretty ridiculous safety standard, thats even ignored anyway on most of the higher multiple rail psu's.

i think it was intel that pushed forward the safety spec that you shouldn't have more than 18amp's down any wires. so after the 12vrail is all nicely made you simply have overvoltage protection that stops more than 18amps going down any specific cable. which is fine, but some things, possibly an very very overclocked cpu, or a gfx card can need more than 18amps. often now we get 3-4 rails in the psu's aimed at people with quad cores and 8800/2900's so the cpu and pci-e might get their own cable. but a dual rail psu will often have say all the pci-e on one rail + say, molex's, on one single rail, and mobo connector and atx2 connector on the other, which can feed a lot of juice to pci-e slots and quad cores and can limit overclocks if you can't break the 18amp limit.

after what, 1-2 years of this , basically, completely useless standard even intel gave up on recommending them. a heck of a lot of the multiple rail psu's now let you use 20-24amps on a rail anyway, which means those psu's are multiple rail for marketing reasons only, and could still screw you on the power you need and where you need it. a good single rail psu still has the usual voltage/current protection and are fine, but mean you simply don't have to worry at all about what you've got connected to what rail.



1000w psu's, for home users, in general are complete overkill. but you really do generally want a 500W for an overclocked 2900/8800 dual/quad core setup. you really do want to be going up to around the 750W area for sli/crossfire on those. what about if you've overclocked even further, have 8 drives and a soundcard, bunch of powerful fans, a 1000W psu isn't the worst idea ever. but very few people need them, remember you're only gonna be loading the 2 gfx cards IN a game, you're unlikely to be transfering data across all the 8 drives at the same time, or loading all usb/firewire ports at the same time and burning 2 dvd's.

but then again, a few people do have dual ath fx setups(few and far between) and those with crossfire will take a heck of a lot of power.

what about a server setup with 8 sticks of mem and 2 quad cores and 15k raid.

then, we've just seen a quad core barcelona setup being demo'd with 2 2900xt's, and a 3rd 2900/2600 card doing physics, so thats more power beyond the 750W for crossfire. the 790 chipset is set to support quad crossfire, in which case i would think you're looking at 1000W psu not being enough.

cpu parts get cheaper to make, they start off expensive, then yields increase, tech moves forward. tech's kinda dead on PSU's, the parts inside don't change massively, they are rated for pretty high temps, and you need good materials to not fall apart at high temps. you're also paying for the warranty aswell, which, has in general been increased over the past few years, while the usage and load on the psu's has gone up, which would likely cause increase in failure rate. much heavier than really anything else, so higher shipping costs add in there a little. i mean, a computer case, theres no real tech, its pressed metal mostly, why are there incredible expensive cases that use fairly similar quantities of metal to cheap cases.
 
Well you can discount PCP&C since they have always been overpriced purely because of the 'status' their brand has.

As to something like a 1200w Toughpower. Yes it is overkill for any current system but just recently I've seen piccies of a system based around a phenom processor in an amd rd790 motherboard, with three 2900XTs in crossfire. If Jokester is already above what a Corsair hx620w can provide with two ultras in sli then just think of the power requirements of such a system.

These new toughpowers also happen to be among the most efficient supplies ever, not to mention their voltage regulation is ridiculously good all the way up to their max output. To elaborate on that a bit, in jonnyguru's testing a hx620w saw a drop of 0.18v on its 12v rails going from a 133w load to a 623w load. The 1200w toughpower saw a 0.16v drop going from 262w to 1185w. So that's 0.18v dropped with a 490w increase or a 0.16v drop with a 923w increase. That alone speaks volumes for the quality of the toughpower since the corsair is regarded as a benchmark for well made power supplies.

A further benefit is that what would be an 80% load for a corsair hx620 would only be a 40% load for the toughpower, which in theory means less stress on the supply and therefore more reliable performance in the longterm (I don't think there is much in the way of universal agreement on that last point however).

Yes you consider them a rip-off, and I myself consider them far too much money to be spending, but then we aren't their target market (which would be people who can afford to buy the absolute best of each class of component). My own system is running on a 500w zalman, which I only bought because it was the cheapest good quality modular supply at the time, and even it is overkill for me since my whole system doesn't draw more than 225w at full load (and that's from the wall so taking 80% efficiency it actually only draws 180w).
 
Back
Top Bottom