are valve amps good for dance music?
- Thread starter nO}{8
- Start date
Having never listened to any dance music on my valve amps (save that for the trannies) I cannot really say. However the relatively low power output of most valve amps (10 - 20 wpc) might cause problems if you are trying to output shed loads of bass. Having said that, why would you want to use valves for dance music? Don't get me wrong, I love it but it doesn't really have any characteristics that would be improved by super quality sound..
Depends what speakers you're trying to match the amp with, what kind of valves/design you have and just how loud you want it to be.
I've tried low power valve amps with current hungry speakers, and the results were pretty unimpressive. On the other hand, I've read of some VERY powerful valve amps (not usually cheap), and have heard mid powered valves matched to effecient speakers that sound totally awesome.
I'd suggest it's really down to system synergy. Get the right mix, and they'll play any music as loud as you'd ever need in a home environment.
I've tried low power valve amps with current hungry speakers, and the results were pretty unimpressive. On the other hand, I've read of some VERY powerful valve amps (not usually cheap), and have heard mid powered valves matched to effecient speakers that sound totally awesome.
I'd suggest it's really down to system synergy. Get the right mix, and they'll play any music as loud as you'd ever need in a home environment.
Amoeba said:
Some of the psy trance and techno I listen to has a fantastic level of production and a very complex and detailed range of sound, are you saying that dance music is only fit for budget sound equipment as youll not hear a difference?
Im currently using a cheap JVC hifi at the moment but want a nice amp and speaker set to bring my music to life. Ive been looking at this one:
Input Power :
110V - 240V AVAILABLE "110v MAY NEED 1 - 2 WEEKS FOR THIS SPECIAL ORDER"
Power :
50 watts x 2 in utlra-linear mode 20watts x 2 for triode mode
Output Tube :
Power Tube EL-34B x 4
Shuguang 6SL7 push Adopts classic parallel push-pull circuit
Input/Driver Tube :
6N1/5670, 6N9P/6SL7 x 2 and 6E1* 2
Ohms :
4 ohms and 8 ohms
Frequency :
10Hz-60KHz +/-3 dB
Signal/Noise Ratio :
95dB
Distortion :
Less than 1% at full power
Input Jack :
2 groups
Input Consumption :
200W
Weight :
26kg
Size Dimension :
Width 465mm
Height 175mm
Depth 280mm
Colour :
Silver
Packing Includes :
All the Tubes / Valve
any thoughts?
nO}{8 said:
any thoughts?
My immediate thought is "garbage in, garbage out". You've made absolutely no mention of what front end you'll put on it. Stick a rubbish CD or DVD player on the front end of an expensive pair of amp and speakers and you'll be seriously dissapointed, as all that you'll show up is how naff the front end is. You NEED to consider that.
The valve amp certainly looks pretty, is that a Chinese import?
From listening to various valve amps at a few shows there does appear to be a vast discrepancy in ability. Most of the best systems I've heard have been valve based, but also some of the worst. I'd suggest you stick to well recognised brands.
In addition, valve amp matching with speakers is NOT easy. There really aren't that many speakers that are designed to work well with valves. Put a "normal" pair of speakers with one, and you're likely to be unimpressed. Speakers from groups like Snell, Audio Note and Living Voice are pretty good, but they're far from cheap or easy to find and dem.
If you fancy going valve, find yourself a GOOD specialist who sells plenty of valve amps and see what he's pairing them up with.
EL34 valves are very nice with a high output power.. With a set of sensitive speakers you should have no problem getting the volume to high levels.. Best thing to do is see if you can get hold of an EL34 amp from somewhere and test run it. At the end of the day it is you who is going to be listening to it 
With regards to the music, no I am not saying it is only worth listening to on budget equipment.. I just don't think it is worth buying a valve amp to listen to synthesised music on.
With regards to the music, no I am not saying it is only worth listening to on budget equipment.. I just don't think it is worth buying a valve amp to listen to synthesised music on.
thanks m8 for the advice my front end is not finalised yet, Ive got an arcam alpha 7 cd player, but was thinking of getting a dac and using the digital out of my computer to that, with my wavs/ ape's/ mp3's etc. As for speakers ill think about that in 6 months when I have the £. 
I have a hybrid amp which is half valve and half transistor. It has two EL34 valves. I'm using a pair of Ruark Sabre II speakers which are bi-wired.
It's good for all kinds of music
It was custom made so don't know if you can buy them.
Dan
It's good for all kinds of music
It was custom made so don't know if you can buy them.
Dan
Hehe, all I mean is I don't see the point in buying equipment such as a valve amplifier to play music which is mostly just beats and noises. You cannot compare the complexity of an average trance / techno / whatever track (I have a large collection of most kinds of dance music by the way) with that of say a full orchestra or opera singer. It is hard to explain I guess and perhaps I am wrongnO}{8 said:please elaborate
Maybe you could explain to me why you think it IS worth buying a valve amp to listen to electronic music on?I dont have a clue 
I asked the question because I dont have an answer. for some reason Ive got it in my head that valved equiptment has a warm and clear sound, ive never heard anything with valves in before, but then again ive never heard highend audio before either 
My dad has always been into audio, but from a music making angle, not really for quality sound but more from a technical stand point. Ive got an anologue synthesizer and love the old style sound you can get from that, and the digital modern equilevents dont match up in terms of warmth and timbre. Ive got it into my head that valve amps are the same! Im stupid I know, I have been looking at some regular amps, like some naim and cyrus ones, but they are out of my price range. Ive got £150 to spend and the valve amp I mentioned in an earlier post seemed good for that price, I suppose I cant judge anthing unless I listen to it, but as I dont/cant then ill just have to take other peoples opinions onboard and make an educated guess 
I asked the question because I dont have an answer. for some reason Ive got it in my head that valved equiptment has a warm and clear sound, ive never heard anything with valves in before, but then again ive never heard highend audio before either My dad has always been into audio, but from a music making angle, not really for quality sound but more from a technical stand point. Ive got an anologue synthesizer and love the old style sound you can get from that, and the digital modern equilevents dont match up in terms of warmth and timbre. Ive got it into my head that valve amps are the same! Im stupid I know, I have been looking at some regular amps, like some naim and cyrus ones, but they are out of my price range. Ive got £150 to spend and the valve amp I mentioned in an earlier post seemed good for that price, I suppose I cant judge anthing unless I listen to it, but as I dont/cant then ill just have to take other peoples opinions onboard and make an educated guess
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Unfortunately valve amps really don't all sound the same. I have heard valve based systems going all the range from thin and screetchy, to thick and bloated, though some of that IS due to system synergy with the components around them.
I'd suggest you start hunting for online reviews and comments about kit, and NOT from magazine reviewers or people that simply want to say "hey, I bought X, therefore it must be amazing".
I'd suggest you start hunting for online reviews and comments about kit, and NOT from magazine reviewers or people that simply want to say "hey, I bought X, therefore it must be amazing".
Mr_Sukebe, whats your opinion of the chinese amps, because its hard to find reviews on them. The build quality seems very high.
http://www.chinese-hifi.co.uk/
http://www.chinese-hifi.co.uk/
If you only have 150 pounds to spare then maybe you should go down the road of vintage valve amps? I have just bought myself a Rogers HG88 Mk3 off eBay for 97 pounds including postage. It will need some components replacing etc but I have read that once they are in tip top condition they really sing. They are only 12 watts per chan, but my father owns a Sansui 500 receiver which is also 12WPC but has more than enough power for a smallish room. Just for you I took a CD of a trance set down and cranked the bass up. Suffice to say it sounded very nice and i got the volume to a level where my mother came into the room to tell me to shut up before any distortion
nO}{8 said:
As I've not heard that many Chinese amps, I'm really not able to comment apart from to say that they appear to offer good value for money.
I genuinely believe that you buy an amp because you like the sound of it, NOT because of it's specs or how it looks.
Having said that, I know of several members of the Zerogain forum who have bought from there. In general they were positive, though a number did "modify" the amps to improve them.
A bit puzzled as to why you would want a valve amp..... general people buy them because they know they want the character they bring, that's not to say a valve amp is better or worse than a solid state device.
Personally I would by a decent second hand integrated, much less hassle and I would say an easier match to wider range of speakers, better suited to the type of music you want to listen to..... It you want tight fast grippy well controlled bass, I wouldn't by valves !
Personally I would by a decent second hand integrated, much less hassle and I would say an easier match to wider range of speakers, better suited to the type of music you want to listen to..... It you want tight fast grippy well controlled bass, I wouldn't by valves !
Hmm ok, not a valve amp but an observation of using dance music on better equipement..
My kit is basic - Castle Harlechs, Musical Fidelity A220 amp and a Myryad MC100 CD player. Bi-wired and Chord interconnects.
Firstly the sound. Agile bass that is deceptively deep but definately subtle with a good clarity. The points I observe more than others:
a) there's gaps between the samples and dark space between the beats. If I was to listen to Prodogy Fat of the Land I can hear the stop-start of Minefields and the bass whilstles over the top with no distortion or lack of clarity in the mid and upper ranges. Diesel Power is another good example.
b) Majority of mass produced Dance shows up as the compressed three layer crap it really is..
c) Layered full production such as Astral Projection's Nilaya really shows what the system can do. Simply stunning and always gets a response from people when I play it.
Now to the next point - the MF A220 is a solid state amp. However it runs A biased giving a warmer sound.
From my understanding:
Class B amps split the signal upper and lower wave, amplify them seperately and then recombine them. This means that the amps run cool as it only expends amplification effort when it needs to. This is the majority of amps.
Class A doesn't split the signal, it amplifies the whole signal without splitting it. Doing it this way means the amp is is always running at full power hence runs very hot. Valve amps are an example. The A220 does the same but with solid state mosfets rather than valves.
Class D is pure digital (such as the TacT Millennium) which basically attaches the power direct to your speakers but uses extremely fast digital power switching to create the waves to power the speaker.
So basically it's possible to run a sound closer to a valve amp with a good power output (rated at 50W rms but lab test found closer to 85). So this means a wider selection of speakers to drive.
With Valve amps your looking at sensitive (>100dB/W) and physically large speakers to give the sound. It's possible to deafen with only 15W but the speakers will be large horn loaded (Airsouts for example).
I would take your favourite tunes along and have a listen to the amps - after all that's what you will listening too..
My kit is basic - Castle Harlechs, Musical Fidelity A220 amp and a Myryad MC100 CD player. Bi-wired and Chord interconnects.
Firstly the sound. Agile bass that is deceptively deep but definately subtle with a good clarity. The points I observe more than others:
a) there's gaps between the samples and dark space between the beats. If I was to listen to Prodogy Fat of the Land I can hear the stop-start of Minefields and the bass whilstles over the top with no distortion or lack of clarity in the mid and upper ranges. Diesel Power is another good example.
b) Majority of mass produced Dance shows up as the compressed three layer crap it really is..
c) Layered full production such as Astral Projection's Nilaya really shows what the system can do. Simply stunning and always gets a response from people when I play it.
Now to the next point - the MF A220 is a solid state amp. However it runs A biased giving a warmer sound.
From my understanding:
Class B amps split the signal upper and lower wave, amplify them seperately and then recombine them. This means that the amps run cool as it only expends amplification effort when it needs to. This is the majority of amps.
Class A doesn't split the signal, it amplifies the whole signal without splitting it. Doing it this way means the amp is is always running at full power hence runs very hot. Valve amps are an example. The A220 does the same but with solid state mosfets rather than valves.
Class D is pure digital (such as the TacT Millennium) which basically attaches the power direct to your speakers but uses extremely fast digital power switching to create the waves to power the speaker.
So basically it's possible to run a sound closer to a valve amp with a good power output (rated at 50W rms but lab test found closer to 85). So this means a wider selection of speakers to drive.
With Valve amps your looking at sensitive (>100dB/W) and physically large speakers to give the sound. It's possible to deafen with only 15W but the speakers will be large horn loaded (Airsouts for example).
I would take your favourite tunes along and have a listen to the amps - after all that's what you will listening too..
nO}{8 said:
You want a valve amp for playing MP3's?
If you like your dance music you'd be better off with a decent (transistor) integrated amp or if you have the cash a nice pre and power amp combo.
As most have said it will be a PITA to find a setup you will like if you decide to go the valve route.
Majority of dance music these days are composed on workstations such as the Korg Triton and other equipment like the Yamaha RM1X beat box for which my current amp was used on for years along with some high end monitor/pa speakers and trust me the sound was awesome
There are a lot of decent second hand transistor amps out there for reasonable money which I am sure you will be more than happy with
ok guys heres an update.....
Ive bought myself some Tannoy R3 floorstanders, and an Arcam Alpha 3 transistor amp under the advice of you guys Im still waiting for the amp to come but Ive got a question about connecting it up. My computer is about 10m away from my amp whats the best way to connect them together? ( comp has a mini jack output and amp is phono).
Ive bought myself some Tannoy R3 floorstanders, and an Arcam Alpha 3 transistor amp under the advice of you guys
Im still waiting for the amp to come but Ive got a question about connecting it up. My computer is about 10m away from my amp whats the best way to connect them together? ( comp has a mini jack output and amp is phono).