Are we really THAT much like America?

Naffa

Naffa

Naffa

Soldato
Joined
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Before you read this post, let me put my cards on the table and say that I am a socialist.

What with all of the comments flying about (maybe less so recently) about how like America we are, I was wondering what people's opinions are regarding America's currently political climate.

Obama is being relentlessly attacked by the right wing media (people such as Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly) and I'm worried about the amount of influence these people have on Americans. Obviously I don't KNOW how much influence they hold, but from reading, YouTubing and general research, it seems a fair amount. It's not just that I don't share the same political ideology, it's that a lot of their beliefs are circular and aren't really interested in evidence. Also, I really don't understand why socialism is regarded as the devil's teaching over there.

For instance:

whysosocialist.jpg


This is being printed on t-shirts and it's sort of assumed that socialism is a word with immedite negative connotations and I don't really get why...

My question is, do you think we are really like America? Or is our political system somewhat more evolved? I know there are a tremendous amount of similar minded people in the UK and that yes, we do have much in common. Also, is it right that these broadcasters hold so much influence with their audience? I ask because there aren't that many broadcasters offering a sense of balance and because I don't feel that people are influenced by broadcasters that much in the UK. But I do invite you to correct my ignorance and help me learn something about what's going on.

I'm just duly curious. Also, I'm sorry about my bumbling about, I'm REALLY bad at articulating my thoughts. :o
 
Why howdy there naffa, I darn thing we're just like our American friends, ya hear.

In reality the US are probably the most similar to the UK (bar Australia). We tend to have our hearts in the right place, even if we over step the mark in terms of trying to "project power" where it might not be wanted / needed.

In terms of media influence, I think the BBC is really a strength of the UK media systems, not for all the "entrainment" pro grammes like Eastenders but for the "relatively" impartial news coverage. The lack of an equivalent in the US means the media has more influence IMO. In terms of our political system, I think were as carp as them. Why on earth proportional representation isn't enacted properly in either country is a mystery to me
 
As far as the Americans are concerned, socialism is about 3 inches to the right of outright communism.

Mind you, communism isn't such a bad idea. It's just never been attempted properly, given that it would basically mean the wholesale removal of government.
 
The NHS is a Socialist idea in a Capitalist society. The NHS isn't bad, people complain its bad, but look back on what it was like before the NHS came along and you'll see what a difference it made.

Most of the people in the US sees things too black and white, that's why socialism is deem to be on the "bad" side of the fence.
 
America will benefit from being more Socialist as it will centre them more. The Uk can do with being more conservative (Capitalist) as it will boot out the ****ing Labour and there ****ing big brother tactics
 
Americans are generally against the central government having too much power, and would rather pay for services such as medical insurance than be taxed to pay for a government run department.

The nhs is a massive organisation (one of the biggest employers in the world) and has many problems because of this. The actual cost per person is quite high, and high earners pay more but get the same service levels.
 
Thanks for the posts so far, very interesting. I think this could turn into a great discussion. :)
 
Well I guess for the most part British and American society do share some similar ideals: Greed, selfishness, the celebration of ignorance etc.
 
We don't have have Rush Limbaugh but we do have the Daily Mail, Nick Griffin and one million BNP voters.

I think America is more polarized than Britain for sure but we have same intolerant, racist right-wing spokesmen, just in different places and with slightly less influence.
 
hood1971 said:
Americans are generally against the central government having too much power, and would rather pay for services such as medical insurance than be taxed to pay for a government run department.

The nhs is a massive organisation (one of the biggest employers in the world) and has many problems because of this. The actual cost per person is quite high, and high earners pay more but get the same service levels.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that those with enough income to afford to pay for services like healthcare of course don't want a state provided service, it's those that actually can't afford it that are in favor. So it's incredibly difficult for the US to swing towards more socialist type ideas because the majority in the case of the US have a high enough annual income to afford private options and fear the introduction of a state system because, like it or not, they'll probably in some way have to pay towards it.

I think Obama is being brave to attempt to get a decent level of options for those on lower income for health care and above and beyond all his current efforts in terms of reaching out to Russia and Iran etc... it's his health care reforms that I think are most notably and worthy of mention.
 
hood1971 said:
Americans are generally against the central government having too much power, and would rather pay for services such as medical insurance than be taxed to pay for a government run department.
Click to expand...

I think this is pretty close...it's all about doing it yourself, a meritocracy.

I remember hearing some girl on TV saying how great Britain was because "if you're not so inclined to work, you will be taken care of".

Not inclined to work? what the hell?

You have welfare in America but over here in the UK it seems there's a huge problem of people permanently on the dole and doing their best to stay that way.
 
It's also worth noting, that despite the large number of idiotic Fox News types, there are obviously enough sensible people who decided not to elect McCain + Palin. Plus, they have the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, which is pretty much the perfect antidote to their sensationalist right wing politics.
 
There does seem to be a truckload of scaremongering in the US.

People live in fear of communism and socialism without really knowing what they are, and the Republicans use this fear to further their cause - though I do sometimes wonder what their cause is and why it's so good.

I was listening to interviews with people in the Deep South who didn't want there to be a government-funded health insurance programme for those not already in a job that provided it or able to afford a policy of their own: They seemed to think that healthcare would be rationed, the doctors would have their hands tied, and that it'd all fall flat on its face, like the NHS apparently has done (well, OK so waiting lists can be long, but we're also free to buy health insurance and go private if we so wish).

There was no thought to the fact that most health insurance companies over there currently do anything to wheedle their way out of covering big health problems, and there are accounts of badly injured people not wanting to get into an ambulance because they wouldn't be able to afford it.

Most of them were parroting ideas put into their heads by 'trusted' Republicans on TV.

It's quite sad, it actually upsets me to think so many people are swayed by a few right-wing dingbats.
 
hood1971 said:
Americans are generally against the central government having too much power, and would rather pay for services such as medical insurance than be taxed to pay for a government run department.

The nhs is a massive organisation (one of the biggest employers in the world) and has many problems because of this. The actual cost per person is quite high, and high earners pay more but get the same service levels.
Click to expand...
Not really the point, yes between the many millions of Americans there may be a bit more tax going towards healthcare - but they're not suggesting bringing in an NHS-style organisation (at least not yet) - the current plan is to help those who can't afford insurance or who have health problems not covered by any plans they can afford: http://www.healthreform.gov/obamaplan.html
 
gurusan said:
You have welfare in America but over here in the UK it seems there's a huge problem of people permanently on the dole and doing their best to stay that way.
Click to expand...

Well, we have a LOT less bums here. I was flabbergasted by the sheer numbers of homeless on the streets over there.

Also, it's not just a way to keep people off the streets - keeping a load of folk on the dole also removes their incentive to commit crime for sustenance.

I agree we've got a bit of imbalance, and a fairly clear teenage pregnancy => cheap housing problem, but I much prefer things the way they are around here.
 
p4radox said:
It's also worth noting, that despite the large number of idiotic Fox News types, there are obviously enough sensible people who decided not to elect McCain + Palin. Plus, they have the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, which is pretty much the perfect antidote to their sensationalist right wing politics.
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You evidently know very little about the United States, its people and politics.

Using your own ignorance to label others as ignorant. Now there's a p4radox for you ;)
 
Al Vallario said:
You evidently know very little about the United States, its people and politics.

Using your own ignorance to label others as ignorant. Now there's a p4radox for you ;)
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate a little?

And I don't think I labelled anyone as ignorant...

edit: I'm also not sure you quite understand what a paradox is...
 
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