Arsenal Rant.

radikal_dj

radikal_dj

radikal_dj

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OCUK Seems like a good stage to air my views, so here goes.
First of all, I am an Arsenal season ticket holder and have been a supporter of the club since I was 10, back in 1989.
I cannot for the life of me remember a period where I was so frustrated with the team and their performances. I would like to spend a few days at the training ground, maybe this would shed some light on what is going on.
Ok, injuries aside, its without doubt a major factor as to why the gunners are playing so poorly-and I say playing in the thinnest form-they cannot continue this way or they will be lucky to finish in the top 10.
At the match against Bolton on Saturday and lastnight against Liverpool, it is clear to see the roots of whats wrong on the field, so many things going on I will list them, please add your comments:

  • They play from the off as if they are 3 goals up. Nobody on the pitch looks like they want to win.
  • 95% of all passes are overhit, underhit, badly weighted.
  • They are all afraid to make a mistake and prefer to play it safe.i.e: Pass to the closest player who is usually in a neutral position.
  • They play across the field and backwards! Nobody tries to make a run or attack, there are no set piece plays so its like watching a pass-pass-pass-turnover rhythm all the time.
  • Thiery Henry just waits for the good ball, he spends most of the game watching and waiting, his mind is already on how his Barcelona shirt will look.
  • Adebayor is poor, has an awful first touch and when he has the ball he gets so excited and turns it over.
  • Gilberto has been poor of late, he does a good Bruce Lee impression when trying to control a ball off the ground and like everyone, just prefers to play the ball safe.
  • SQUARE PASSES ALL DAY LONG - Get the ball forward!!! The statistics lastnight spoke for themselves - Hardly any attempts on goal and Liverpool had 11 more corners than us...I wonder if they've ever heard the phrase "Defence saves goals, Offence wins Championships".
  • Nobody can run with the ball and even if they do, they turn it over or get tackled.

A shocking state of affairs really.

Paul
 
last night was really REALLY poor, however i dont think you are giving enough credit to Liverpool. Liverpool didnt let arsenal play the way they wanted to, so Arsenal had to adapt, something Arsenal isnt very good at.

The west ham game was quality from both sides, it was just a poor result.

The problem mainly starts from using Vierra, since then its totaly gone down hill.
 
Liverpool were good, Fowler had a frustrating night and Morientes is a joker. I wouldn't say Liverpool prevented Arsenal playing the way they wanted, they didnt need to do anything, Arsenal cannot play this game at the moment and that is that. Bolton don't even look like a professional team at times and they almost beat us, Kevin Nolans goal was like the ones I score in 5 a-side !!
Real Madrid will have a field day at Arsenal unless they pull their fingers out and change their gameplan, quicksharp.
 
Liverpool were quick to close down and were onto every second ball in a flash... very similar in fact to the way Bolton play. Liverpool and Bolton are also both great in the air all over the park.

Without Vieira or indeed another holding midfield player it is difficult for Pires/Reyes/Ljundberg and the other attacking midfielders to go forward without leaving the defence exposed. Unfortunately, at the moment when the defence is exposed they are getting punished.
 
If you look at Arsenal's first (available) 11 at the moment, man-for-man they really are only 5th best in the league.
 
radikal_dj said:
OCUK Seems like a good stage to air my views, so here goes.
First of all, I am an Arsenal season ticket holder and have been a supporter of the club since I was 10, back in 1989.
I cannot for the life of me remember a period where I was so frustrated with the team and their performances.
Click to expand...

There were certainly worse times before that era, and there were after, I'd suggest you have a poor memory.

radikal_dj said:
Ok, injuries aside, its without doubt a major factor as to why the gunners are playing so poorly-and I say playing in the thinnest form-they cannot continue this way or they will be lucky to finish in the top 10.
Click to expand...

Home form will be easily enough to get a far better finish than 10th.
radikal_dj said:
At the match against Bolton on Saturday and lastnight against Liverpool, it is clear to see the roots of whats wrong on the field, so many things going on I will list them, please add your comments:
Click to expand...

We played fairly well against Bolton, laid seige to their goal in the 2nd half (yes the 1st was poor) and it wouldn't be unfair to say we could have scored 3 or 4. We certainly created far more chances than Liverpool did last night.

radikal_dj said:
  • They play from the off as if they are 3 goals up. Nobody on the pitch looks like they want to win.
  • 95% of all passes are overhit, underhit, badly weighted.
  • They are all afraid to make a mistake and prefer to play it safe.i.e: Pass to the closest player who is usually in a neutral position.
  • They play across the field and backwards! Nobody tries to make a run or attack, there are no set piece plays so its like watching a pass-pass-pass-turnover rhythm all the time.
  • Thiery Henry just waits for the good ball, he spends most of the game watching and waiting, his mind is already on how his Barcelona shirt will look.
  • Adebayor is poor, has an awful first touch and when he has the ball he gets so excited and turns it over.
  • Gilberto has been poor of late, he does a good Bruce Lee impression when trying to control a ball off the ground and like everyone, just prefers to play the ball safe.
  • SQUARE PASSES ALL DAY LONG - Get the ball forward!!! The statistics lastnight spoke for themselves - Hardly any attempts on goal and Liverpool had 11 more corners than us...I wonder if they've ever heard the phrase "Defence saves goals, Offence wins Championships".
  • Nobody can run with the ball and even if they do, they turn it over or get tackled.

A shocking state of affairs really.

Paul
Click to expand...

I'm pleased to see you can label Adebayor as 'poor' after just 3 games. I believe he's actually done rather well in his first few games, in a new county and a new team, after returning from a major tournament, he has a good touch, good turn, and certainly offers something different.

Gilberto, the less said the better. Diaby has to start infront of him now.

daz said:
If you look at Arsenal's first (available) 11 at the moment, man-for-man they really are only 5th best in the league.
Click to expand...

Well considering the first XI hasn't played for nearly 2 seasons (It will be by the end of this season), it's hardly a surprise :p

I believe most of the problems stem from Left back.

Yes we have been poor at times this season, we have also been exceptionally unlucky with injuries, I don't think there is a team who has had it this bad ever. 8th choice left back, I mean thats stupid. We have also been unlucky in several of the games, Both Chelsea games (offside goal at the Bridge, Offside goal at Highbury) the boro away game, we could have been 3 or 4 up in 20 minutes. Even last night in the 1st half if the linesmann had got it right, we might of been one up. It's those little things that make your season.
Yes things aren't great, but they are nowhere near as bad as some people try to make out, we have some of the greatest young potential this country has ever seen. Walcott, Cesc, RvP, Reyes, Diaby, Djourou, Bendtner, Lupoli and many more.
 
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Arsenal need someone who can take the game by the 'scruff of its neck' and turn it around. Someone who can tackle. Someone who can also go forward.
You know, like Viera. :p
 
BoomAM said:
Arsenal need someone who can take the game by the 'scruff of its neck' and turn it around. Someone who can tackle. Someone who can also go forward.
You know, like Viera. :p
Click to expand...
Or Gerrard :D
 
Magno Viera used to play for Carlilse, can't see how he will help us :p

Personally i think Gilberto needs to go, Ljungberg is so past his best its painful to watch, and pires can just go sunbathe in the sun for all i care if thats what he wants.

I think we're two quality midfield signings away from being a big force again, an experienced centre to back up cesc and diaby (my choice would be bouba diop), and a backup left wing in case Jose has an off day. Walcott and Hleb (who i think will come good) on the right, plenty of options up front, cole/toure/lauren backed up by campbell/senderos/djorou/eboue/clichy.

And as for Adebayor, far too soon to judge the guy, although i think for the money we spent i would've preferred dean ashton.

There we go.
 
Come on give them some slack. They're in a transitional period right now, with a limited budget I think Wenger has done extremely well.
I admire Wenger sometimes, he is the best thing that came to Arsenal. When he came he brought something else to the prem, he changed the premiership culture, he brought in a new training style which did not just mean different football techniques but he was looking at the whole picture, the lifestyle of the players, the strict diet regimes etc... I think wenger deserves a lot more praise than he is getting. I really think the premiership would have been very different if Wenger didn't come to Arsenal.
 
I wish people would stop mentioning Vieira in these damn threads, especially as the reason/excuse for why we're playing so badly. Vieira was out injured at the start of last season, and we played fantastically. Remember we were sitting pretty at the top of the table? No Vieira for most of that. Vieira had been playing poorly for us for the last couple of season, I can understand fully why we sold him.

We're not missing Vieira. We ARE missing Gilberto, Ljundberg, Pires, Campbell, and Henry (to some extent). These are the experienced players who are supposed to lead the team, and control the game. Gilberto is supposed to be doing the holding midfield work he's done for years (Vieira hasn't been a proper holding midfielder for some time, it's been Gilberto covering him), and yet he's done absolutely nothing. Ljundberg is supposed to be cutting in, and making runs into the box with the ball, and yet all he does is make the odd short run and fail to beat opposing players. Pires is supposed to be a creative force on the left wing, hooking up with the left back, working with Henry, and getting the ball into the box, and yet he's pottering about with the ball and falling over all the time now. Campbell is supposed to defend like the machine he was, but he's too fat and up himself. Henry is supposed to be dropping back to get service, or moving over to the left and pulling defenders with him, but instead he's sitting at the top of the pitch waiting for everything to come to him. Losing Vieira is a poor excuse for a team that can be so much better than this with or without him.

Given the form of those guys, I personally wouldn't want to see what most people consider out starting XI playing full time anymore. I think it's time we dropped them all, and replaced with the youngsters, who actually seem to care about what happens on the pitch. Make them realise that they're not automatic choices, and maybe they'll start trying again.

vanpeebles said:
its a shame that most of those *greatest young potential this country has ever seen* act like spoilt punk kids.
Click to expand...
They do? :confused:

From what I've watched, it's the senior players who've acted like spoilt brats, not the kids. The kids are the ones that actually seem to care, and commit themselves to a game.
 
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Arsenal are going to be the dominant force in english football for the next 10 years.
















Or so everyone was saying at the end of the 2003/2004 season anyway.
 
Most of our problems have come from our depleted defence, putting extra pressure upon the midfield and they're not up to the task, all fairly lightweight.

Once we get our back four fit again, a lot of the problems will be rectified, but I also think that Diaby should start, he looks a very good player in the making to me and could ease a lot of our problems. Having said that, Gilberto would need to find some form again, because he's pretty much dead weight at the moment and Ljungberg/Pires aren't pulling their weight either.

Henry has this habit of standing about all the time, especially when we've lost possession and his ambling back means that we can't get the ball forward as we'd like. I also think he's on his way at the end of the season and as I've said before, I don't blame him, but whilst he's pulling on the Arsenal shirt, I expect 100%!!

In the close season, I'd get rid of a few players, Reyes, Ljungberg, Pires, Gilberto, but if that were to happen, we'd have to spend some serious money on replacements, as the youth approach won't get us in the CL for the season after.
 
Weebull said:
I wish people would stop mentioning Vieira in these damn threads, especially as the reason/excuse for why we're playing so badly. Vieira was out injured at the start of last season, and we played fantastically. Remember we were sitting pretty at the top of the table? No Vieira for most of that. Vieira had been playing poorly for us for the last couple of season, I can understand fully why we sold him.

We're not missing Vieira. We ARE missing Gilberto
Click to expand...

Got to stop you there I'm afraid. I think people actually underestimate Vieira's value to the team - they were quick to **** him off, saying how poorly he'd been playing in the 18 months or so prior to his sale. But what they clearly don't understand is that even when he's not at his best, and not contributing much going forward (which was a fair shout), Vieira still does a fantastic job for a couple of reasons:

First and foremost, his ball-winning ability in midfield is second to none. He can do everything that Makalele can do, but better, and also offers something extra in terms of his driving forward (which was not so effective in the past couple of seasons). In other words, he was fantastic at breaking up opposition moves. Secondly, he was a strong physical presence. Losing the likes of Keown to retirement, and Campbell to injury, is only compounded when our biggest and strongest player is sold, allowing teams like Bolton to rough us up.

The irony is that Gilberto has come in for critisism from fans this season, when it was the fans saying what a huge loss he was last season, saying that he was the secret link, silent but effective in a holding role. How come he can't cope this season then?

Of course, Arsenal have done OK when Vieira has been injured suspended from time to time, because like most clubs, a short-term absence can be covered for if the squad is strong enough, and the previous form is good enough to take forward. I remember tom_w made the point following Arsenal's unbeaten season that they had been lucky with injuries that year, which in hindsight was probably a fair comment.

I don't know if anyone remembers my "head in the sand" comments 6 months or so ago, but at least it seems people are finally waking up to the fact that Arsenal have some short-term difficulties in terms of the loss of Vieira, and the failure to strengthen the centre of defence over the past couple of years, meaning an over-reliance on unproven youngsters in critical fixtures. I'm still astounded at way we spend the time developing these youngsters, build up a fantastic array of attacking talent, and then go and blow £10m on someone like Hleb who we blatantly don't need. Why bother? We had the likes of Quincy chomping at the bit, surely he was a good enough backup player. £10m on an unneccesary attacking midfielder but only pocket change on the defence. George Graham must be turning in his grave :)

Maybe you could say that in 5 years time, as the squad matures, Arsenal will be the best thing since sliced bread. But why do we have to put up with this transitional period? Look at Manchester United in the mid-90s. They had a great squad of players with certain members approaching the end of the careers, and like arsenal, a bunch of youngsters coming through. But that didn't stop them spending to strengthen the areas they needed to. Andy Cole was a british record transfer, and then when Cantona retired, they brought in another proven international in Teddy Sheringham to replace him. Pallister was replaced by Stam, they didn't rely on youngsters like Wes Brown.

We don't need any more promising youth players, we have enough already. Realistically how many clubs integrate more than a couple of youth players into the first team (i.e. become regulars) each season anyway? You can witness this by looking at all the young players who have been offloaded by Arsenal in recent times. Why bother concentrating everything on the future at the expense of the present? Why don't we go and throw a lorryload of cash at someone to land a world class centrehalf, instead of yet another forward? I didn't mind Adebayor to be fair, because he's a different sort to what we have already, but the likes of Hleb and Walcott weren't what we needed. A lot of money on a pair who are 4th choice winger and an unproven 16 year old, meanwhile the defence looking as vulnerable as I can remember.

Of course, Arsenal still have the capability to win the Champions League this season, which would paper over the cracks somewhat. But I'm worried that things could spiral out of control.... a couple of years ago we could have coped without Henry, but not anymore. What's needed in the summer? Sack Bergkamp and Pires, and use the savings to finance a move for a proven international CB with european experience. If we have to pay in excess of £7m (I think Lauren remains our most expensive defender), so be it.
 
Well Bergkamp will be retiring thats for certain. I don't think Reyes should go, IIRC he's leading the assists in the premiership at the moment. I'd only get rid of Pires (or sign him on a one year deal, I certainly think he's worth that) and Fred. I'd also be tempted to get rid of Gilberto.

Gilberto is an interesting beast. We did really miss him when he was injured he did the simple things well. Now for some reason he has trouble doing those.

I'd then sign 2 CM, an attacking winger of the Overmars style, and then a defender like Toure/Gallas who could play across the whole back four. In terms of a transfer fee Lauren is the most expensive. Of the current crop Senderos would be next at about £1m. (Sol being free)

I don't think selling Vieira was a mistake it was the way or infact lack of the way in which he was replaced. I expected Gilberto to step up to the plate, and after previous seasons this was to be expected. He just hasn't done that. To be fair to Wenger he couldn't of predicted the injuries or the massive lack of form of several senior players.

George Graham turning in his grave. I thought you had to be dead to do that!!
 
I think fans are very fickle, i am happy to be an Arsenal fan and im quite happy for the future to come. I am fully behind Arsene and would love to sign him on a lifetime contract. We will never no if selling Vieira was a mistake or not because hes not here anymore. Gilberto hasnt stepped into Vieiras shoes but lets face it there prity big shoes. I dont think its anyone individuals fault. Although I do think with confidence this current team should easily get champions league qualification, lets just hope that the confindence comes back. I remember a couple of years ago when we were in the Untouchable season, i really REALLY wanted Real Madrid that year, i think its the ultimate match for that Arsenal because of the 2 teams attacking style. When we got drawn with Real this season i was still happy but by far not confident. I hate to feel that we cant win games when we all know that we could do. I just think people need to understand that this team isnt the same team that went 49 games unbeaten. All in all its not the best time to support Arsenal results wise but i wouldnt change my team for the world. We will be the best again... I guarenDAMNtee it!

-m-m-
 
Gooner14 said:
George Graham turning in his grave. I thought you had to be dead to do that!!
Click to expand...

He had to go to WHL every week, that's enough to kill off anyone :)

As for the players, Vieira can't really be replaced because there are so few players of his class playing today. It's unrealistic to expect Wenger to be able to replace him overnight.

I think Bergkamp and Pires is enough outfield players to be shipped out given that Quincy and Bentley have just been sold. We can't afford to get rid of Gilberto because we need the experience at CM alongside Fabulous after the departures of Vieira, Parlour and Edu. Flamini isn't the finished article and I doubt Diaby can run the show on his own. Ljungberg is an interesting one, last season from what I saw he was arguably one of our best players, but it seems he has been off form this season (perhaps due to Wenger shuffling his pack quite a lot). Personally I think he's done enough in the past and still has a few years left in him, so there's no need to sell. Henry/RvP/Reyes/Freddie should be the 4 first choice forwards with Adebayor/Hleb/Walcott/Lupoli/Aliadiere/Smith as the backup/cup players. Maybe Hleb could replace Ljungberg dependant on form.
 
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