Audi dismiss F1 as Irrelevant

dannyjo22

dannyjo22

dannyjo22

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http://www.pitpass.com/43704-Audi-dismisses-F1-as-irrelevant

I have to agree with them from the point of view of the VAG group and most of the manufacturers. F1 offers nothing of interest for road car technology and arguably hasn't for 30 years or more.

All of the car makers have slowly realised the money in doesn't make anything like a return on the investement.

Renault are all but gone and I don't imagine Mercedes will end up staying for too many more years as a works team.
 
I completely dissagree with you.

Yes, F1 was irrelevant to road car makers. They all came into F1 in the early 2000's to use F1 as a way to market by association. This works for companies like Ferrari where they are a premium brand and sell high performance sports cars. But it became aparent this doesnt really work for 'normal' road car makers. Hence the reason BMW, Honda, Toyota and Renault all left.

However, the 2013 rules are very relevant to 'normal' road car makers, far more than to premium car brands like Ferrari. Yes, the technology will be different, but there will be F1 cars with 1.6 Turbos, and road cars with 1.6 Turbos. This is marketing gold.

What it is, is a shift. Renault are nowhere near gone. Yes, they don't own a team any more, but they currently supply 3 teams with engines and are looking for a 4th next year. This is where the value is for car makers. You have to remember that (Ferrari excluded) F1 teams being owned and run by car manufacturers is a very recent thing (past 10 years). For decades F1 teams were run by private individuals or small teams, buying components from car makers like engines and gearboxes. F1 is heading back to these ways, and it is, by deliberate design, very interesting for car makers.

The reason Audi are not interested in F1 is that the Endurance racing brand they have in both Prototypes and GT is massively successfull, but I doubt they could justify F1 involvement as well. They are simply sticking to what is working for them now.

F1 is becomeing far more interesting for people like Toyota, GM, Ford, etc, and less enticing for premium brands who don't have small turbos at the heart of their range (Ferrari). VAG are just doing very well already, and with their recent announcement to enter WRC, have fingers in enough pies to keep then busy already.
 
Completely agree with them.

Since the engine freeze the only real area of development which resources can be ploughed into is aerodynamics, which has absolutely no relevance to road cars.

It's the reason why Renault, BMW, Toyota and Honda all left. There could possibly be some justification for remaining in the sport if they were getting good PR from winning races. But they weren't. And they were'nt learning anything of use for other areas of their business.

The sooner the reliance on aero is removed and some lee-way is given in engine development the better IMO
 
Skeeter said:
I completely dissagree with you.
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And I don't disagree with you, you are talking about a potential future which may not come to pass with the 1.6 turbos. Yes that would become more relevant. For 20 years now F1 has been irrelevant to road car use and I agree with Audi.

Even then F1 is far too expensive in relation to other formats to use as a testbed, unless they went purely as an engine supplier.

I can't see a return to what you say happened in previous eras because the costs are far too high for privateers to run a team that cost 200+ million per year to finance to tread water.

Very possible in the past when the budgets where less than 40 million (1997) and 10 million or more of that paid the drivers and ciggerettes paid the majority of the rest.
 
But Audi aren't talking about joining F1 in 2005... they are talking about joining it in 2012 or 2013.

And the 1.6 turbos WILL happen. They already have.
 
Actually audi talk in that article about why they never entered in 99 when they looked at it. I can't see anywhere in that article they say they have dismissed it for 2012/13 if the engine rules change.

Unless of course you have a better link, I would like to see it :)

I'm still not convinced the engine ruling will change.
 
dannyjo22 said:
http://www.pitpass.com/43704-Audi-dismisses-F1-as-irrelevant

I have to agree with them from the point of view of the VAG group and most of the manufacturers. F1 offers nothing of interest for road car technology and arguably hasn't for 30 years or more.

All of the car makers have slowly realised the money in doesn't make anything like a return on the investement.

Renault are all but gone and I don't imagine Mercedes will end up staying for too many more years as a works team.
Click to expand...

I also agree with that.

Skeeter said:
But Audi aren't talking about joining F1 in 2005... they are talking about joining it in 2012 or 2013.

And the 1.6 turbos WILL happen. They already have.
Click to expand...


Mclaren and Ferrari\Mercedes use V8s in their high end road cars not punny 1.6. And turbo powerd cars will use more fuel
I don't see the 1.6 turbo being used in F1 because of this.
 
Skeeter said:
But Audi aren't talking about joining F1 in 2005... they are talking about joining it in 2012 or 2013.

And the 1.6 turbos WILL happen. They already have.
Click to expand...

But totally pointless as they have gone back on what they wanted and are totally restricted so basically standard units like we have now, same as the kers.

Why do that, when they can enter le-mans and other series where they can actually use it as a test bed and show of their fuel effeciency to power ratio and use it as a marketing bed as well as a test bed.
 
I'm sure Audi don't sell many 3.7 litre V6 Turbo Diesel engines...

And deuse, the 2013 engine specs are for 1.6 4 cylinder turbos limited to 12,000rpm, using KERS and other hybrid systems to produce around 750bhp while reducing fuel consumption by a targeted 50%. So where you got the more fuel idea from I don't know.

Personally, I hate these new engine rules. However I fully understand why the FIA have done it, and have accepted the fact that its what is needed for F1 to survive.
 
Yep. Last months Turbo edition.

However, the potential for road cars with 250bhp 1.6 Turbos that do 35MPG with KERS powered electric motors pre-spinning the turbos to eliminate lag and provide flat power curves really excites me. But the sacrifice we have to pay is the loss of 18,000rpm screaming F1 cars :(. I'm going to miss them.
 
Skeeter said:
IAnd deuse, the 2013 engine specs are for 1.6 4 cylinder turbos limited to 12,000rpm, using KERS and other hybrid systems to produce around 750bhp while reducing fuel consumption by a targeted 50%. So where you got the more fuel idea from I don't know.
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The FIA target this year was to slow the cars down and use less down force!
They always set a target to make it look good to the public and press. And as for turbos my 2.0ltr sierra
used way less fuel then my uncles Cosi sierra and the turbos blew up a lot in F1 the last time they was used.

I remember Murray saying "there goes another turbo..but they are banned next year"
 
Skeeter said:
Are you seriously trying to suggest that turbo technology in F1 in 2013 will be no further developed than the stuff used 30 years ago?
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All I am trying to say is this..When turbos came to F1 they said the same as you are saying now
i.e the first turbo was 1918 now it's 1977 turbo technology has moved on ..see a pattern here?

To me F1 is just going round and round in circles which is not good for the sport.
 
I'd like to see Saab, BAE, Airbus, Boeing etc, would be pretty interesting to have some proper aero-whizes make an awesome car. All they would have to do, is do what the normally do, then flip it upside down :p
 
deuse said:
All I am trying to say is this..When turbos came to F1 they said the same as you are saying now
i.e the first turbo was 1918 now it's 1977 turbo technology has moved on ..see a pattern here?

To me F1 is just going round and round in circles which is not good for the sport.
Click to expand...

It is evolving technology. The wheels are still round, and still going in circles...
 
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